Post Play

[zeke]

First , this is an excellent question & u can already see it carries several different opinions.Great topic to cover in pre game and at half time. Looking at it from the college, this is a form of hand checking. Very much so in the post. Without the ball I will allow him to have it there but not to guide but to brace or "feel". With the ball, only to brace for initial contact then drop it (to brace) any movement by the offense to make a offensive move with the elbow on-defensive foul.

[BillyMac]

Here's what I discuss with my partner in our pregame conference regarding post play:

Post Play
- Let’s not allow a defender to use a forearm on a player with the ball.
- Let’s not allow a defender to use a leg or knee to move a player off the block.
- Let’s make sure the offensive player isn’t holding off the defender, or holding him with his off-hand.
- As Lead, let’s find the post matchup as soon as possible so that we get the first foul.
- Remember the RIDD’s. Don’t let players: Redirect, Impede, Displace,or Dislodge.

[zeke]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Here's what I discuss with my partner in our pregame conference regarding post play:

Post Play
- Let’s not allow a defender to use a forearm on a player with the ball.
- Let’s not allow a defender to use a leg or knee to move a player off the block.
- Let’s make sure the offensive player isn’t holding off the defender, or holding him with his off-hand.
- As Lead, let’s find the post matchup as soon as possible so that we get the first foul.
- Remember the RIDD’s. Don’t let players: Redirect, Impede, Displace,or Dislodge.

impressive. thanks for sharing that with me.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Here's what I discuss with my partner in our pregame conference regarding post play:

Post Play
- Let’s not allow a defender to use a forearm on a player with the ball.

Does that mean that it's OK for a defender to use a forearm on a post player without the ball? Or any player, for that matter?

From an old but still valid NFHS POE on ROUGH PLAY:- "Use of a forearm, regardless of the duration of the contact, is a FOUL".

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Does that mean that it's OK for a defender to use a forearm on a post player without the ball?

In college, yes, that's what it means. But as I distinguished above, not in HS.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

In college, yes, that's what it means. But as I distinguished above, not in HS.

I knew that, Chuck. My cognitive skills haven't deteriorated that much with age, you elitist prick.

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I knew that, Chuck. My cognitive skills haven't deteriorated that much with age, you elitist prick.

I am not an elitist!

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Does that mean that it's OK for a defender to use a forearm on a post player without the ball? Or any player, for that matter?

From an old but still valid NFHS POE on ROUGH PLAY:- "Use of a forearm, regardless of the duration of the contact, is a FOUL".

JR,
Please direct me to the reference you are applying in this situation. As for me, a forearm in and of itself does not constitute a foul and to say that it is, seems a little officious. My interpretation of the OP is that they meant every time an arm bar is used is this a foul? It is not unless it impedes, reroutes, or displaces. A forearm can be used to absorb contact as long as it isn't extended.

If I am defending in the post, playing behind and to the side of the offense, I extend an arm to deter the entry pass and I have my off arm in front of my chest and more than likely it is in contact with the offense. If the offense ins't actively working to get the ball, I am not going to call this.

If memory serves the intent of the NFHS was to stop the pushing that players do with the arm bar, is this what you are referring to?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

JR,
Please direct me to the reference you are applying in this situation. As for me, a forearm in and of itself does not constitute a foul and to say that it is, seems a little officious. My interpretation of the OP is that they meant every time an arm bar is used is this a foul? It is not unless it impedes, reroutes, or displaces. A forearm can be used to absorb contact as long as it isn't extended.

If I am defending in the post, playing behind and to the side of the offense, I extend an arm to deter the entry pass and I have my off arm in front of my chest and more than likely it is in contact with the offense. If the offense ins't actively working to get the ball, I am not going to call this.

If memory serves the intent of the NFHS was to stop the pushing that players do with the arm bar, is this what you are referring to?

Nope, your memory is incorrect. the NFHS meant to stop the usage of an arm bar completely. Using the criteria "impedes, re-routes or displaces" basically is the NCAA Mens interpretation, not the NFHS'. The NCAA MENS POE says something to the effect that you can't use a forearm to prevent a player from attaining or maintaining their legal position.

That cite that I made is direct from POE 4A in the 2002-03 NFHS rule book, and it refers to a forearm on any player anywhere on the court. It was also repeated verbatim from the 2001-02 rulebook. The 2003-04 rulebook in POE 2A-7 also stated "When a player jabs a hand or forearm on a player, it's a foul."

Iow, maybe for you, the forearm in and of itself does not constitute a foul, but to the FED it sureasheck does. They said so for three straight years in their rule book.

Now, whether it gets called according to the FED interpretation faithfully is a whole 'nother matter. From the responses in this thread, I'd say that it looks like it depends on the region. Whether any of us agree or not personally, I think that whether the forearm is uniformly called throughout a region is more important anyway. The coaches and players should be able to know exactly what they can do out there from game to game without getting called for a foul.

Btw, in our region, we teach our officials to call the forearm immediately, with the same goal in mind as the FED....to cut down on rough play.

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The 2003-04 rulebook in POE 2A-7 also stated "When a player jabs a hand or forearm on a player, it's a foul."

Iow, maybe for you, the forearm in and of itself does not constitute a foul, but to the FED it sureasheck does. They said so for three straight years in their rule book.

This says that jabbing a forearm is a foul. Nothing more.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

This says that jabbing a forearm is a foul. Nothing more.

Um, yeah? And that's basically what the previous two years of NFHS POE's say also, as I cited previously. Iow, a foream is considered an automatic foul under NFHS rules.

I think I might be missing the point that you're trying to make.

[mick]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Btw, in our region, we teach our officials to call the forearm immediately, with the same goal in mind as the FED....to cut down on rough play.

Because several coaches (a number of local ex-DII players) teach the forearm as a defensive technique, I have taken the track of "talking" the forearm off, even when there is no ball in the post. If I get a chance, I will advise the player(s) that when they begin their college seasons the forearm will permitted.

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Here's what I discuss with my partner in our pregame conference regarding post play:

Post Play
- Let’s not allow a defender to use a forearm on a player with the ball.
- Let’s not allow a defender to use a leg or knee to move a player off the block.
- Let’s make sure the offensive player isn’t holding off the defender, or holding him with his off-hand.
- As Lead, let’s find the post matchup as soon as possible so that we get the first foul.
- Remember the RIDD’s. Don’t let players: Redirect, Impede, Displace,or Dislodge.

I know this is going to sound snotty, and I don't mean it to. But it would be nice if you credited the author when you quote their stuff. This is lifted directly from my pre-game notes, which I posted here: Looking for a detailed pre-game