Was there a resolution in Kentucky?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Kevzebra

Correct except for one or two points: 1) We don't have basketball classifications in KY. 2) The official in question that brought up the "alumni" question happened to be friends with one of the assistant coaches at that school as well. Granted that one should not officiate games at a HS he/she went to, but in college ball, we have a 10 year waiting period (in some places) and then we can go to that school. I do not see the problem in sending an alum to a game. IF the official has the integrity to do so, I see no problem with it. At that crucial time, the assigning secretary had the confidence that no bias would come up.

I disagree completely.

When the playoffs arrive, we don't even work the same teams we see all year. All officials travel to arbitrary sites to officiate teams they do not workj during the regular season. And they sent an alum from a HS to work his former school's game in the state tourney? Sorry but that's just assinine.

It really has nothing to with whether he would be biased or not. I'm sure he wouldn't. But it's all about the "apopearance" of bias or a conflict of interest. There are other games. They should have looked for a way to move him off that game and to another one at the same level of the playoffs. That's just plain stupid and it's asking for trouble.

[Kevzebra]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I disagree completely.

When the playoffs arrive, we don't even work the same teams we see all year. All officials travel to arbitrary sites to officiate teams they do not workj during the regular season. And they sent an alum from a HS to work his former school's game in the state tourney? Sorry but that's just assinine.

It really has nothing to with whether he would be biased or not. I'm sure he wouldn't. But it's all about the "apopearance" of bias or a conflict of interest. There are other games. They should have looked for a way to move him off that game and to another one at the same level of the playoffs. That's just plain stupid and it's asking for trouble.

Seems you think the glass is half empty too huh?

There are people who can put his/her personal feeling aside and call an objective game. I know if I ever had the chance to go to my old HS and do a game, I would. I have been back to my Alma Mater in college as well and had no qualms about going there and called the game down the middle (as I always do)!

So please do not condem the people that have a hard enough job as it is. There was a good reason those officials were chosen for the assignment!

One other thing, please get a dictionary or use "spell check".

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by Kevzebra

One other thing, please get a dictionary or use "spell check".

Hey!! There's only room in this forum for one annoying spelling guy. . .

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Hey!! There's only room in this forum for one annoying spelling guy. . .

Barely enough room...and that's even knowing he doesn't take up much space.

Kevzebra - the issue isn't whether we can put aside our personal feelings. I think almost all of us can. It is the appearance of possible favoritism. Let's say you do go work that game at your alma mater. And there's a close call at the end of the game that goes against the visitors. When the visiting coach finds out you went to the home school, you've just put your assignor in a bad spot of trying to explain how objective you really are. Why put him/her in that spot? Perception becomes reality, so if someone perceives you as biased because of your past affiliation, then you are. I was just recently picked up by a conference that includes my wife's alma mater. She graduated from there over 25 years ago, and has not been active in any school functions, other than going to a class reunion several years ago. Even with that, I informed my assignor about this and let him make the decision as to whether I can work any games involving that school. It so happens he doesn't have an issue with it, so if there is a problem down the road, he can defend me, or decide to take me off any other games with that school.

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

When the playoffs arrive, we don't even work the same teams we see all year. All officials travel to arbitrary sites to officiate teams they do not workj during the regular season. And they sent an alum from a HS to work his former school's game in the state tourney? Sorry but that's just assinine.

So if an official gets picked to do the state championship game and it's his alma mater, should he get taken off the game? That's silly.

At our state tournaments, we aren't allowed to officiate teams from our district for the first two days. After that, things fall where they may. No problems. I have reffed my alma mater (boys and girls games) many times during the regular season and in the playoffs. No problems. I graduated from there 25 years ago and it's completely irrelevant.

The situation in Kentucky was a problem because two official's involved were unprofessional. Let's not twist it to appear as if it was a problem because of the assignment.

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

It is the appearance of possible favoritism. Let's say you do go work that game at your alma mater. And there's a close call at the end of the game that goes against the visitors. When the visiting coach finds out you went to the home school, you've just put your assignor in a bad spot of trying to explain how objective you really are. Why put him/her in that spot?

Well said.

I tried not to take up much space with that reply.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Well said.

I tried not to take up much space with that reply.

Don't feel bad, Chuck. You take up a small spot in all of our hearts...

[JRutledge]

People think we are bias even when we are not no matter what the issues are. Just because there is an "appearance" of bias, does not make it a valid issue. People think if you live in a certain town, you must have a bias toward the team in the town you live. I have a better relationship with people that are not working at my old HS and if the right person did a probe they would come up with a conflict there as well. I have worked games with people I went to HS or college with and no one even knows I knew them very well. I think we worry too much about what people think.

Peace

[Kevzebra]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Barely enough room...and that's even knowing he doesn't take up much space.

Kevzebra - the issue isn't whether we can put aside our personal feelings. I think almost all of us can. It is the appearance of possible favoritism. Let's say you do go work that game at your alma mater. And there's a close call at the end of the game that goes against the visitors. When the visiting coach finds out you went to the home school, you've just put your assignor in a bad spot of trying to explain how objective you really are. Why put him/her in that spot? Perception becomes reality, so if someone perceives you as biased because of your past affiliation, then you are. I was just recently picked up by a conference that includes my wife's alma mater. She graduated from there over 25 years ago, and has not been active in any school functions, other than going to a class reunion several years ago. Even with that, I informed my assignor about this and let him make the decision as to whether I can work any games involving that school. It so happens he doesn't have an issue with it, so if there is a problem down the road, he can defend me, or decide to take me off any other games with that school.

No one would have known had the issue not been raised by the "suing official". THe coaches had no clue till HE told the assistant from that school!

[Kevzebra]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

People think we are bias even when we are not no matter what the issues are. Just because there is an "appearance" of bias, does not make it a valid issue. People think if you live in a certain town, you must have a bias toward the team in the town you live. I have a better relationship with people that are not working at my old HS and if the right person did a probe they would come up with a conflict there as well. I have worked games with people I went to HS or college with and no one even knows I knew them very well. I think we worry too much about what people think.

Peace

AMEN! The only person I have to please with my officiating is myself and my supervisor. As long as we are happy, the rest is gravy!

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Kevzebra

Seems you think the glass is half empty too huh?

There are people who can put his/her personal feeling aside and call an objective game. I know if I ever had the chance to go to my old HS and do a game, I would. I have been back to my Alma Mater in college as well and had no qualms about going there and called the game down the middle (as I always do)!

So you don't have the ability to comprehend what you read. I'm not talking about a glass. May I suggest that you have someone else reas it and explain it to you? If you did, the person would tell you:

"BBR doesn't disagree that the official would have been able to call the game without bias. He even wrote as much in his post. What he said was that we should avoid the "appearance of bias or conflict of interest." That means that assignors shouldn't put officials in postions where it appears to an uneducated observer that the offiical might favor a team."

So please do not condem the people that have a hard enough job as it is. There was a good reason those officials were chosen for the assignment!

Sorry but I have a right to my opinion, whether you agree with it or not. Don't tell me what to think.

One other thing, please get a dictionary or use "spell check".

Hey prick, I don't need either. I type in a hurry and sometimes I make a mistake. If that bothers you, I couldn't care less.

BTW, the word is spelled c-o-n-d-e-m-n, not c-o-n-d-e-m. Also, you should have used the plural form of "feeling," which is "feelings."

[SeanFitzRef]

Originally Posted by Kevzebra

So please do not condem the people that have a hard enough job as it is. There was a good reason those officials were chosen for the assignment!

One other thing, please get a dictionary or use "spell check".

Seems to me someone needs to follow their own advice......

Apologies to "Mr. Spell Check", I just couldn't resist!!!

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by zebraman

So if an official gets picked to do the state championship game and it's his alma mater, should he get taken off the game? That's silly.

And your comment is stupd, even for you. We have 8 state championship games, 4 boys and 4 girls. We send one crew to work a state championship game every year. With 8 games, we've NEVER had a problem with puttung neutral crews on every single game. So no, it's not necessary to not assign an official a state final. You simply assign him a game with teams that he normally doesn't work.

At our state tournaments, we aren't allowed to officiate teams from our district for the first two days. After that, things fall where they may. No problems. I have reffed my alma mater (boys and girls games) many times during the regular season and in the playoffs. No problems. I graduated from there 25 years ago and it's completely irrelevant.

Congratulations.

The situation in Kentucky was a problem because two official's involved were unprofessional. Let's not twist it to appear as if it was a problem because of the assignment.

I can discuss any aspect of this situation that I choose to, without regard to what you think should or should not be discussed. After all, it is a discussion forum.

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by zebraman

So if an official gets picked to do the state championship game and it's his alma mater, should he get taken off the game? That's silly.

Absolutely. No doubt about it. The official should have the sense to recuse himself if assigned to the game. I find it hard to believe you think this is "silly". Imagine a state championship game where a foul is called with no time left and someone from the official's alma mater is shooting 3 to win the game. Heads would roll.

Also if one of the teams is from his current home town, even if (or especially if) it's his alma mater's arch rival. Imagine the situation above where it's his alma mater's arch rival and there is no call.

This is not a question of integrity of the official, it is a question of integrity of the game. There should never be any hint of favoritism.

[Kevzebra]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

So you don't have the ability to comprehend what you read. I'm not talking about a glass. May I suggest that you have someone else reas it and explain it to you? If you did, the person would tell you:

"BBR doesn't disagree that the official would have been able to call the game without bias. He even wrote as much in his post. What he said was that we should avoid the "appearance of bias or conflict of interest." That means that assignors shouldn't put officials in postions where it appears to an uneducated observer that the offiical might favor a team."



Sorry but I have a right to my opinion, whether you agree with it or not. Don't tell me what to think.



Hey prick, I don't need either. I type in a hurry and sometimes make a mistake. If that bothers you, I don't givea****.

Well, seems as if somone has a problem with associative responses as well. Oh wait, you can comprehend what that is I bet.

The forum is for opinions and I was speaking mine as you were yours. Just because we disagree (and you cannot spell) is no reason to get nasty. I neither called you any names or degraded anything but your ability to type. If that is the worst thing that happens to you today be happy!