Illegal dribble?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

mick, I have no idea what it confuses you.

If I dribble the ball and you touch it with any part of your body other than your hands, the dribble has not ended. I can retrieve it and continue to dribble, shoot, or pass. But I cannot pick the ball up and then begin to dribble again because I ended the dribble. (4-15-4 a through e)

So......you're saying that even though your dribble might have touched 9 other players before you were able to touch it again, and the ball mighta gone from under your basket to under your opponent's basket, that whole sequence is still one continuous dribble?

Somehow, I don't think that I'm gonna buy that one.

[BktBallRef]

JR, if you have 9 defenders on the floor, then you have more issues than just not being able to understand this play.

Look up the term interrupted dribble in the rule book. Maybe that'll help you.

[mick]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

So......you're saying that even though your dribble might have touched 9 other players before you were able to touch it again, and the ball mighta gone from under your basket to under your opponent's basket, that whole sequence is still one continuous dribble?

Somehow, I don't think that I'm gonna buy that one.

JR,
It seems if the ball hits more than one player in the foot, the dribble still hasn't ended and one should just ignore it and worry about something else.
mixk

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

JR, if you have 9 defenders on the floor, then you have more issues than just not being able to understand this play.

Look up the term interrupted dribble in the rule book. Maybe that'll help you.

How could an "interrupted dribble" be relevant to the question? The definition of an interrupted dribble says that the ball is loose after deflecting off the dribbler, not another player. There's no mention anywhere in the definition of an interrupted dribble about the ball going off another player. And, yes, I meant "player" and not "defender", both here and in the original question; "player" meaning any member of both teams on the court.

So again.....could you please answer my question?

If the dribbler, underneath his own basket, dribbled the ball off the foot of a defender or teammate beside him, and the ball then touched or was touched- but not controlled- by the 8 other players on the court, and the ball then ended up under the opponent's basket before the dribbler could catch up to it, do you also consider that as one continuous dribble?

[BktBallRef]

C'mon Woddy, you're better than that.

An interrupted dribble occurs when the ball
a) is loose after deflecting off the dribbler
b) or after it momentarily gets away from the dribbler.

A dribble does NOT have to deflect off the dribbler to be an interrupted dribble.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

If the dribbler, underneath his own basket, dribbled the ball off the foot of a defender or teammate beside him, and the ball then touched or was touched- but not controlled- by the 8 other players on the court, and the ball then ended up under the opponent's basket before the dribbler could catch up to it, do you also consider that as one continuous dribble?

Until another player gains control of the ball or the ball is dead, it continues to be an interrupted dribble and Team A continues to have team control. You know that. That's not even close to being a reasonable argument.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

C'mon Woddy, you're better than that.

An interrupted dribble occurs when the ball
a) is loose after deflecting off the dribbler
b) or after it momentarily gets away from the dribbler.

A dribble does NOT have to deflect off the dribbler to be an interrupted dribble.



Until another player gains control of the ball or the ball is dead, it continues to be an interrupted dribble and Team A continues to have team control. You know that. That's not even close to being a reasonable argument.

Naw, I ain't better than that. I still don't think that you've got rules backing to make that illegal dribble call.

lI'll agree that there's still team control on the loose ball, but I contend that player control is also lost and a new player control is established if the original dribbler gets the loose ball after it touches other players. Not the same player control. I sureasheck also can't agree that that play meets the definition of an interrupted dribble. The definition of an interrupted dribble mentions it going off the dribbler only or momentarily getting away from the dribbler only. You're trying to add other criteria to that definition. And what criteria? If it can go off one other player than the dribbler and still be an interrupted dribble, why can't it go off 9 other players and move 80' down court and still be an interrupted dribble? There's no rules language anywhere differentiating between the two situations, is there?

The problem with this play is that it's simply not covered definitively, rules-wise.

Btw, Woddy?

[BktBallRef]

Never claimed to be a great typist, Wooey.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The definition of an interrupted dribble mentions it going off the dribbler only or momentarily getting away from the dribbler only.

...

The problem with this play is that it's simply not covered definitively, rules-wise.

Btw, Woddy?

Define momentariliy. The point is that an interruted dribble can occur through just about any action when the dribbler doesn't have control (of the dribble). Off the opponents foot is one such case. Now, when it ceases to be an interrupted dribble may not be clear, but it is, at first, an interrupted dribble. It is most definitely NOT a fumbe, however.

[mick]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Define momentariliy. The point is that an interruted dribble can occur through just about any action when the dribbler doesn't have control (of the dribble). Off the opponents foot is one such case. Now, when it ceases to be an interrupted dribble may not be clear, but it is, at first, an interrupted dribble. It is most definitely NOT a fumbe, however.

Camron,
I don't sight that case.
Can you cite it ?
mick

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Define momentariliy. The point is that an interruted dribble can occur through just about any action when the dribbler doesn't have control (of the dribble). Off the opponents foot is one such case. Now, when it ceases to be an interrupted dribble may not be clear, but it is, at first, an interrupted dribble. It is most definitely NOT a fumbe, however.

Where in the rules may I find something that definitively says that an interrupted dribble may go off another player's foot? I can't find any language like that in the rule books that I own- and I've got the new ones too. The rule books that I've got only mention an interrupted dribble going off the dribbler, or the dribbler momentarily losing it.

Now, you define "momentarily" if you wanna use the interrupted dribble rule. Is it right away, 10 seconds, 34 seconds, etc.? Does "momentarily" cover 9 other players touching the ball and the ball moving 80 feet away from where the dribbler lost it?

Somehow, I really don't think I'm gonna buy that one either, Camron.

If you can't define when it ceases to be an interrupted dribble, then howintheheck can you use the same parameters and rule to back up your interpretation of that rule to say that it's always a violation if the dribbler goes and grabs the loose ball and dribbles again?

If it isn't a fumble and it isn't an interrupted dribble, then what the heck is it? And when you do figure that out, let me know where I can find something in the rule book that definitively covers the situation that we're discussing.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

let me know where I can find something in the rule book that definitively covers the situation that we're discussing.

9-5 is still the cornerstone of the whole thing. Nothing in the book says the dribble has ended, therefore regardless of time consumed and number of people touched, the dribble is still alive.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I don't know how to turn PMs on. I thought that was something women took pills to avoid.

Click on User CP in the upper left hand corner. There, you can setup options for your profile, like private messaging.

Then we can make fun of Woddy privately.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by just another ref

9-5 is still the cornerstone of the whole thing. Nothing in the book says the dribble has ended, therefore regardless of time consumed and number of people touched, the dribble is still alive.

And there's nothing in the book that says the dribble hasn't ended either. Rule 9-5 can't be the cornerstone if it doesn't cover the situation that we're discussing. It's that simple.

My rulebook doesn't show anything in R9-5 to definitively back up what you're alleging.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Click on User CP in the upper left hand corner. There, you can setup options for your profile, like private messaging.

Then we can make fun of Woddy privately.

I found it yesterday. Fire at will.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And there's nothing in the book that says the dribble hasn't ended either. Rule 9-5 can't be the cornerstone if it doesn't cover the situation that we're discussing. It's that simple.

My rulebook doesn't show anything in R9-5 to definitively back up what you're alleging.

Woody, Woody, Woody....c'mon buddy, you know better than that.

4-15-4 tells us that a dribble ends when:
The dribbler catches or causes the ball to come to rest in one or both hands.
The dribbler palms/carries the ball by allowing it to come to rest in one or both hands.
The dribbler simultaneously touches the ball with both hands.
An opponent bats (intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)) the ball.
The ball becomes dead.

None of those things happened in this play. We don't need a rule that tells us when it DOESN'T end. You know that.