illegal dribble

[elecref]

A1 is dribbling the ball in the frontcourt and then decides to end the dribble by catching the ball as it comes to rest on both hands. A1 becomes confused and pushes the ball to the floor once again but does not touch it as it bounces in front of him. would it be an illegal dribble when the ball is pushed to the floor after he ended his original dribble or if he touched the ball after pushing it to the floor following the original dribble ended. thanks

[deecee]

if he picks up his dribble how would he make a bounce pass if pushing the ball to the floor is illegal?

[truerookie]

yes, in both scenerio NFHS 4-15-4c; 4-15-2

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by truerookie
yes, in both scenerio NFHS 4-15-4c; 4-15-2

Nope, there's nothing illegal about the first scenario. It's not an illegal dribble until A1 touches it again after ending his original dribble. Deecee has the right answer.

Rule 9-5.

[elecref]

deecee, i understand what you are saying. but what i am trying to ask is if A1 pushes the ball to the floor in an attempt to start another dribble; realizes that he can not do this as he had ended his original dribble --- does the pushing of the ball to the floor for the start of the 2nd dribble make this a violation? Or is it when he touches the ball following the second attempt that would make this a violation? hope this makes sense.

[elecref]

thanks Jurassic. that was my thought as well. i have seen it called both ways and wanted to make sure that my interpretation was correct.

[deecee]

if a player picks up his dribble and goes to start a new dribble that is completly legal -- he just cannot touch the ball until someone else does first. You will see this happen and a player who is at least decent will then try and box out defenders who try and touch the ball. Doesn't matter what he is trying to do -- what he did was not illegal -- at least until he touches the ball.

[zebraman]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Nope, there's nothing illegal about the first scenario. It's not an illegal dribble until A1 touches it again after ending his original dribble. Deecee has the right answer.

Rule 9-5.

I beg to differ. A dribble is started by pushing the ball to the floor (4-15-3). It doesn't say you have to touch it again for it to be a dribble. If you judge that the player was dribbling - violation.

Check out case 4.15.4 Situation A. Note that the violation occurs when A1 pushes the ball to the floor, not when A1 catches it after it hits the floor.

Z

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by zebraman

I beg to differ. A dribble is started by pushing the ball to the floor (4-15-3). It doesn't say you have to touch it again for it to be a dribble. If you judge that the player was dribbling - violation.

Check out case 4.15.4 Situation A. Note that the violation occurs when A1 pushes the ball to the floor, not when A1 catches it after it hits the floor.

Z

However a pass is when a player throws, bats or rolls the ball to another player.

If a player bats the ball how do you differentiate between a pass & a dribble?

[zebraman]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

However a pass is when a player throws, bats or rolls the ball to another player.

If a player bats the ball how do you differentiate between a pass & a dribble?

Based on 4.15.4 Situation A, I'd say that a referee's judgment is required.

Z

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by zebraman

Based on 4.15.4 Situation A, I'd say that a referee's judgment is required.

Z

So I can judge a bounce pass is a double dribble?

[zebraman]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

So I can judge a bounce pass is a double dribble?

You could, but it would be pretty poor judgement. I'm not trying to be a jerk. How do you interpret 4.15.4 Sit A?

Z

[deecee]

this dead horse is about to be beat -- make this call and then T up the coach for calling you on it and being angry because its a bad call. Until the player touches the ball consider it lose and let the action take care of itself. To much judgement not enough play

[assignmentmaker]

Originally posted by zebraman

You could, but it would be pretty poor judgement. I'm not trying to be a jerk. How do you interpret 4.15.4 Sit A?

Z

"How do you interpret 4.15.4 Sit A?"

As you must interpret lots of Fed rules. As best you can. Many, even most of the time, rule changes have been made and interpretations added on an ad hoc basis, without adequate attention to clarity and consistency. Are the rules worse than the Windows operating system, where to 'shut down' you go to 'start'?

Consider the poor 'Intentional Foul'. "It may or may not be premeditated", despite the fact that premeditated is a pretty good synonym for intentional.

I am not simply kicking the dog here. The rules grew up by committee, over a long period of time. It is a shame, IMHO, that the Fed has not invested some of its cashflow in having people skilled in the art normalize the rules.

This all being pre-amble, you interpet 4.15.4 Situation A as being slightly less than robust and use your judgment in the matter under consideration here as to whether or not a braincramp, pass, or dribble is intended - or, ohmygoditgetsworse - a 'fumble' has gone down, so to speak.

[zebraman]

Originally posted by deecee
this dead horse is about to be beat -- make this call and then T up the coach for calling you on it and being angry because its a bad call. Until the player touches the ball consider it lose and let the action take care of itself. To much judgement not enough play

It's a bad call because you say so even though the rules support it? Can't imagine this leading to a T.

Z