Disqualified player question...

[Dan_ref]

What Tony said.

When you are told B1 is DQ'ed tell coach then point to the table and loudly say "gimme 30 seconds, horn at 20" (20 seconds if under ncaa). Then let Coach B stare until the horn, turn to him, smile & politely ask where his muthafugin sub is...and btw as soon as his sub is pushed towards the table walk away and start the game up again.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

What Tony said.

When you are told B1 is DQ'ed tell coach then point to the table and loudly say "gimme 30 seconds, horn at 20" (20 seconds if under ncaa). Then let Coach B stare until the horn, turn to him, smile & politely ask where his muthafugin sub is...and btw as soon as his sub is pushed towards the table walk away and start the game up again.

I dunno Dan...early in my career I would probably have just stood there and been "showed up"(and IMO, that is what the coach is doing)...but now, I gotta tell ya...I'm not so sure I would take it.

I would probably walk over to the coach and ask him if he liked my "outfit" or something. I would stand there and engage in a conversation that would either get him back to coaching (I think that is what coaches are suppose to do) or get him back to communicating with me without his unsportsmanlike conduct and playing to the crowd.

Now...if his communicating with me becomes unsporting...then I have something more tangible than staring to "work with".

Don't get me wrong...I don't want to "bait him" (even though some might say he is baiting me with the staring)...I want to "educate him" in the proper ways to handle our obvious communication break-down. If he is a quick learner...then we can be on our way with no further problems...if not, well, it's his choice.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

I would probably walk over to the coach and ask him if he liked my "outfit" or something. I would stand there and engage in a conversation that would either get him back to coaching (I think that is what coaches are suppose to do) or get him back to communicating with me without his unsportsmanlike conduct and playing to the crowd.

Dude, if you do that, you're sinking to the coach's level imo. If all he's doing is staring, who cares? He'd better have a sub AT the bench when that 30-second horn goes though. He sure doesn't deserve a break if he's wasted his 30 seconds staring at you.

When a coach is thoroughly pissed off at you, all of the game-management skills in the world ain't gonna change his mind. Let him play his little games and ,hopefully, get it out of his system. If not, then nail him if you have to. Sometimes, they want that "T".

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

I dunno Dan...early in my career I would probably have just stood there and been "showed up"(and IMO, that is what the coach is doing)...but now, I gotta tell ya...I'm not so sure I would take it.

I would probably walk over to the coach and ask him if he liked my "outfit" or something. I would stand there and engage in a conversation that would either get him back to coaching (I think that is what coaches are suppose to do) or get him back to communicating with me without his unsportsmanlike conduct and playing to the crowd.

Now...if his communicating with me becomes unsporting...then I have something more tangible than staring to "work with".

Don't get me wrong...I don't want to "bait him" (even though some might say he is baiting me with the staring)...I want to "educate him" in the proper ways to handle our obvious communication break-down. If he is a quick learner...then we can be on our way with no further problems...if not, well, it's his choice.

I neither want to bait or educate, and I for sure am not worried about being "showed up", 'cause I got a million and one ways to get him back. Let him stare all he wants in this case (I just know Chuck's gonna find that thread where we argued staring). He gets 20 seconds or 10seconds depending on the rules and that is it, after the that the game is going to start again. But I can see how the staring deal is annoying. I've used your approach (walk over while asking "Say coach, I couldn't help that you're looking at me...is there something I can help you with?") but it aint worth it to me any more. You wanna stare? Go ahead, it don't mean sh1t to me.

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

(I just know Chuck's gonna find that thread where we argued staring).

Nah. You all know how I feel about it. Staring is not T-worthy. Get the sub within 30 seconds and keep going. That's just my opinion, of course.

[Brad]

If the sub is just on the way, it's supposed to be an automatic direct "T" charged to the head coach. NFHS casebook play 10.5.3SitB(c).

I wouldn't split hairs on this one - you are just asking for trouble. If the sub is on his way, just have him enter and get the game going.

I would tell the coach he has 30 seconds. If he insists that he has a minute, my response is going to be, "Coach, by rule you have 30 seconds for a sub." Then I'll turn and ask the table to start the 30 seconds and let me know when I have 10 seconds left.

At 10 seconds I'm going to tell the coach, "Coach, I need a sub now please."

I don't ask the table to use the horn - that is probably a personal preference thing... I want to be in control of the situation and I don't want the other coach making an issue if the sub wasn't right in front of the table when the 2nd horn goes off.

This method has worked for me and I haven't had to give a technical for a substitution since my 1st or 2nd year (when I didn't inform the coach that he had 10 seconds left).

The others are right too that it is not a time-out -- the 4 players that are still on the court can stand at the side of the court, but everyone else remains seated.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Brad

1) I wouldn't split hairs on this one - you are just asking for trouble. If the sub is on his way, just have him enter and get the game going.

2) I don't ask the table to use the horn - that is probably a personal preference thing... I want to be in control of the situation and I don't want the other coach making an issue if the sub wasn't right in front of the table when the 2nd horn goes off.

1) Agree... that's exactly why I said "supposed to" instead of "should". But that ain't definitive either. If a coach wants to spend 30 seconds staring at me, and then decide to go about getting his sub up to the table after the second horn goes, well....too bad for the coach. I ain't cutting him a break under those conditions. That was my point.

2) Disagree completely with that one. The rule book call for a horn- in all rulesets. The rule is in there for a reason; the reason being that neither team gets an advantage by taking a longer time than allowed. Hell, doing it your way, I could see some coaches informing their home timer to give 'em a minute instead of 30 seconds....and I certainly can see some home timers following their coach's direction. Do you also not get the official timer to time TO's, intermissions, etc. either? There's really no difference. Jmo, but if a coach knows that he'd better get a sub up to the table rather than staring at an official, you'd get a heckuva lot less staring.

[Brad]

No -- I do use the timer to time the clock and actually I misspoke -- I will get them to give me the first horn. However, I'll handle the expiration of time myself.

I know what the rule says, but I have been given this advice in pre-games with veteran officials that work a lot of games... If it works for them, it'll work for me