Spectator interference at a critical point

[Official99]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

A.R. 14. Who is responsible for behavior of spectators? RULING: The home management or game committee, insofar as it can reasonably be expected to control the spectators, is responsible. The officials may call indirect technical fouls on either team when its supporters act in such a way as to interfere with the proper conduct of the game, such technical fouls do not count as team fouls

Bravo Dan... Bravo....

Gentlemen, I think Dan just answered your question (at least the way NCAA expects you to do so).

[grizwald]

What about a neutral court game, like a tournament?

There is no home management, or the home management may not be from one of the teams competing.

Just for kicks, assume that not only something like this happens, but also it is the NCAA Div I Men's Championship game.

That would rank right up there with the parachute jumper falling in on Bowe v Lewis (? i think) in the middle of a round.

[drinkeii]

Remember, however... in this situation, I clearly stated that the person involved had nothing to do with either team. This might not be so clear in a real game situation, but lets say it is an overexuberant 12 year old who knows the gym will be open after the game, and just jumps the gun on throwing the ball out on the court to get ready to play. Penalizing either team with a T would be unfair to that team, as the person didn't act for or against either - it was just a bad timing and aim issue.

I like the 30 second time reset, with overtime being my second favorite. But the overtime might be a better sell... I think you'd have trouble with getting the coaches to be happy with the 30 second thing. JMHO. I'm glad to see it is a situation that generated some conversation!

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by Official99

Bravo Dan... Bravo....

Gentlemen, I think Dan just answered your question (at least the way NCAA expects you to do so).

Hey!! I answered it the same way 10 hours sooner!! Don't I get some dap?

Originally Posted by me

In a regular season game, it's much more likely that the person who threw the ball would be rooting for the other team, so you have the T at your disposal.

[Official99]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Hey!! I answered it the same way 10 hours sooner!! Don't I get some dap?

Bravo Chuck... Bravo


(does that make you feel better?)

[Mwanr1]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

With the assumption that the person interfering with the play was not connected with either team. There is no rule in the book addressing game interruptions of this nature...not by team members or spectator connected to a team.

The obvious possibilities are neither supported by rule nor supported by the the spirit and intent of the rule.

• Doing nothing (the shooting team was put at a disadvantage not intended by the rules...can't assume that it would have missed)
• Counting the basket (the defending team would be put at a disadvantage not intended by the rules...can't assume that it would have gone)
• Calling a T (on who??).

So, what to do? Whatever the solution, it should be one that gives each team a fair chance to win going forward. With time having expired or nearly so, you couldn't have a alternating possession...that would be equivalent to one of the above...game over.

You could put time back on the clock (enough to run 1 play...say 20 or 30 seconds). Going with restoring time, it's not double jeapardy since we have no idea if the shot was good or not. Give A a chance to run a play, let B defend it.

You could declare an overtime. That could have implications...foul trouble or stamina issues that neither team would have otherwise faced.

I think I'd put time back on the clock and replay the possession. It seems like the most fair and equitable thing to do.

I agree!!! Good point!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Official99

Good point, except that is an example of a deadball situation - free throws. What happens in a live ball situation where the potential shot could be worth 3 points?

Huh?

The ball is live on a free throw as soon as the FT shooter gets it. You can't score with a dead ball. That's a basketball basic.

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by Official99

Bravo Chuck... Bravo


(does that make you feel better?)

Immeasurably!!

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Immeasurably!!

Good.

Now you can go climb up your tree & really have a good time.

[BillyMac]

This play really happened a few months ago. I have discussed it with several officials and cannot seem to get a clear intepretation. I posted it on this Forum a few months ago, but it didn't seem to generate a lot of interest, so I'll try again:

NFHS Rules. High school varsity game. Small, crowded gymnasium. Not much room outside the sidelines.

Point guard A1 passes to wing A2, who, unfortunately was making a V-cut toward the basket. I am the trail official and I know for sure that the ball will definitely go out of bounds on the sideline on the opposite side of the floor from me. My partner is the lead official and it's his sideline to cover. At that second, a fan, holding a hot dog from the concession stand, while trying to get back to his seat, while totally inbounds, both feet, on the playing surface, is struck by the ball which keeps it from going out of bounds. Player A2 comes back from his V-cut to pick up the loose ball and play continues. My partner and I were both dumb-founded, and allowed the play to continue with no whistle. No coaches complained. No parents complained.

Is there a call here? Is the fan treated like an offical on the court, as part of the floor? If a coach or substitute had been struck by a ball under the same circumstances, we could have called a technical foul for the coach being out of the coaching box or for a sixth player being on the floor.

Please cite an NFHS rule or case book reference. I am also willing to accept NCAA, FIBA, NBA, or WNBA citations. Help.

[ChuckElias]

I don't know how my name got dragged into M&M's tree. The real question is what would happen if M&M was having a good time up in his tree and a 12-year old kid threw a basketball at him to try to get him down.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

I don't know how my name got dragged into M&M's tree.

He was using your hand.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

This play really happened a few months ago. I have discussed it with several officials and cannot seem to get a clear intepretation. I posted it on this Forum a few months ago, but it didn't seem to generate a lot of interest, so I'll try again:

NFHS Rules. High school varsity game. Small, crowded gymnasium. Not much room outside the sidelines.

Point guard A1 passes to wing A2, who, unfortunately was making a V-cut toward the basket. I am the trail official and I know for sure that the ball will definitely go out of bounds on the sideline on the opposite side of the floor from me. My partner is the lead official and it's his sideline to cover. At that second, a fan, holding a hot dog from the concession stand, while trying to get back to his seat, while totally inbounds, both feet, on the playing surface, is struck by the ball which keeps it from going out of bounds. Player A2 comes back from his V-cut to pick up the loose ball and play continues. My partner and I were both dumb-founded, and allowed the play to continue with no whistle. No coaches complained. No parents complained.

Is there a call here? Is the fan treated like an offical on the court, as part of the floor? If a coach or substitute had been struck by a ball under the same circumstances, we could have called a technical foul for the coach being out of the coaching box or for a sixth player being on the floor.

Please cite an NFHS rule or case book reference. I am also willing to accept NCAA, FIBA, NBA, or WNBA citations. Help.

Billy, I don't think that there's anything definitively covering it under NFHS or NCAA rules. This is probably one of the very few times that NFHS 2-3 can be used. From a logical standpoint, I'd say that if you were sure that the pass was gonna go OOB untouched, then blow the whistle and give team B the ball OOB at that spot for fan interference. That's seems like the fair call to me and I don't think that you'd get too many arguments over that.

Note that I certainly can't fault you for letting the play continue. That play certainly rates a "whatinthehell?".

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

He was using your hand.

Sigh...

Chuck, you can go ahead and get in the tree. I guess I'm done with it for now.

Can I give you a hand?

[dblref]

Originally Posted by Official99

Bravo Dan... Bravo....

Gentlemen, I think Dan just answered your question (at least the way NCAA expects you to do so).

How do you know the guy that threw the ball up was a supporter of either team? Without knowing something like this, how can you asses the T?