The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 27, 2006, 12:09am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 329
Send a message via Yahoo to drinkeii
Spectator interference at a critical point

I had a game (yes, intramural league, but there were probably 75 spectators there because it was late in the playoffs) where a shot went up just before the buzzer. The shot, had it been good, would have changed the outcome of the game. A spectator sitting near the front row at that end of the gym threw a basketball that he had been holding onto the court, toward the basket, and it contacted the game ball headed for the basket. It was entirely possible, based on the way the shot looked, that it could have gone in the basket.

The spectator was not there for any specific team - he was looking to get out on the court after the game. It was not intended to interfere with the shot (I know the kid pretty well - he admitted this afterwards, and I believe him). Obviously he was disciplined.

Extra information aside, how would you deal with this kind of interference which clearly could have affected the outcome of a game? It's possible (however unlikely) that something similar could happen in a real game - we all know anything and everything eventually does happen. What do you do? I honestly don't think there is a solution (short of a lynch mob for the spectator - haha j/k) that would make anyone happy, even if there is a solution. But I am curious to see how people would respond to this from an officials' point of view.
__________________
David A. Rinke II
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 27, 2006, 01:29am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 9,466
Send a message via AIM to rainmaker
Wow. Just wow.

I think the obvious answer in the rec league setting would be to go to overtime. It would give both teams a chance to get past the roadblock in deciding a winner, and it would punish the guy who is so anxious to get out there and play.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 27, 2006, 01:38am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 265
I posted this a few months ago, but it bears repeating on this thread.

I was calling a boys varsity game between two good teams (visitors went to the FL 4A state final four that year) in a cramped, packed small town Florida gym 4 years ago. Game management was usually hard to find in most of these gyms and this one was no exception.

Visiting team brings the ball in to start the 2nd half, swings it around the top to their best player (A1) in the corner who shoots a 3-pointer next to their bench. I'm C on that side standing right next to their coach. As A1 elevates, two kids about 8-9 years old come running in from the lobby across the corner of the floor right in front of and kind of up and under the shooter and then straight into the stands. There were no defensive players within 5-6 feet of A1. I wasn't sure what to do, but I didn't want to blow the whistle as he was going up for his shot and possibly deny him a 3-pointer. He missed the shot but his team got the rebound. As they took the ball back out top to set up their next play, the coach (a very good coach who focused much more on coaching than on ref-baiting) just looked at me in disbelief and asked what I was going to do. I told him I didn't want to deny the shot, and besides, I wasn't sure what to do. He actually said he had no idea either, and since his team got the rebound he seemed happy and let it go.

Are small town gyms the best or what?
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 27, 2006, 07:02am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 329
Send a message via Yahoo to drinkeii
I guess i'm looking more for how to handle it during a regular season game... in our area, there's gyms small enough that something like the other situation could happen, intentionally or not.
__________________
David A. Rinke II
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 27, 2006, 07:38am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: In a little pink house
Posts: 5,289
Send a message via AIM to Back In The Saddle Send a message via MSN to Back In The Saddle Send a message via Yahoo to Back In The Saddle
My initial reaction is the same as Rainmaker's. Take charge, get both coaches together and tell them that because of the interference against a shot that could have gone in and won the game, but also might not have, we're going to decide the game in overtime. Jump ball in one minute, Guys; good luck! I think I'd handle it that way during the season as well.
__________________
"It is not enough to do your best; you must know what to do, and then do your best." - W. Edwards Deming
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 27, 2006, 07:42am
MABO Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: MB, Canada
Posts: 796
My initial reaction is to stop play due to the interference. If you can determine the action was to favor one team or the other and intentional, then a T is waranted. Otherwise I would go with who had possesion or use the alternating possesion arrow to get the play going again.

Again thats just my initial reaction. I don't know if there is anything inthe rules to support any of this.
__________________
"Your Azz is the Red Sea, My foot is Moses, and I am about to part the Red Sea all the way up to my knee!"

All references/comments are intended for educational purposes. Opinions are free.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 27, 2006, 07:46am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: In a little pink house
Posts: 5,289
Send a message via AIM to Back In The Saddle Send a message via MSN to Back In The Saddle Send a message via Yahoo to Back In The Saddle
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeEater
My initial reaction is to stop play due to the interference. If you can determine the action was to favor one team or the other and intentional, then a T is waranted. Otherwise I would go with who had possesion or use the alternating possesion arrow to get the play going again.

Again thats just my initial reaction. I don't know if there is anything inthe rules to support any of this.
According to the OP, this happened right at the end of the game. The shot was intended to be a buzzer-beater.
__________________
"It is not enough to do your best; you must know what to do, and then do your best." - W. Edwards Deming
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 27, 2006, 09:20am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Western Mass.
Posts: 9,104
Send a message via AIM to ChuckElias
This is a very tough situation. If the game was tied and the shot was for the win, I wouldn't do anything and we'd just go to OT. If the shot was by the team that was trailing, that's a much tougher scenario. There's no rule that would allow you to award points for this. In a regular season game, it's much more likely that the person who threw the ball would be rooting for the other team, so you have the T at your disposal.

If, for some reason, you couldn't justify the T, you could suspend the game with whatever time was on the clock (which I realize was very little, if any)and write a report and let the league determine how to finish the game. That's not a very appetizing option, though.

I don't know what you really could do, except assess the T.
__________________
Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only!
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 27, 2006, 10:30am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Just north of hell
Posts: 9,250
Send a message via AIM to Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckElias
This is a very tough situation. If the game was tied and the shot was for the win, I wouldn't do anything and we'd just go to OT. If the shot was by the team that was trailing, that's a much tougher scenario. There's no rule that would allow you to award points for this. In a regular season game, it's much more likely that the person who threw the ball would be rooting for the other team, so you have the T at your disposal.

If, for some reason, you couldn't justify the T, you could suspend the game with whatever time was on the clock (which I realize was very little, if any)and write a report and let the league determine how to finish the game. That's not a very appetizing option, though.

I don't know what you really could do, except assess the T.
Yeah but if it was a 3 pt attempt at the buzzer the T means nothing, doesn't it?

This is an ugly situation. I hope it happens to you before it happens to me.

Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 27, 2006, 01:27pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: In a little pink house
Posts: 5,289
Send a message via AIM to Back In The Saddle Send a message via MSN to Back In The Saddle Send a message via Yahoo to Back In The Saddle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
Yeah but if it was a 3 pt attempt at the buzzer the T means nothing, doesn't it?

This is an ugly situation. I hope it happens to you before it happens to me.

Make it a 3 shot T.
__________________
"It is not enough to do your best; you must know what to do, and then do your best." - W. Edwards Deming
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 27, 2006, 05:29pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NH
Posts: 87
Lightbulb You are correct

This is a great question... and one that when it happens, regardless of what age, skill or league will surely stir up questions.

Just remember that according to Rule 2 Section 3 (NHFS) & Rule 2 Section 3 Artile 1 (NCAA) "the referee shall be empowered to make decisions on any points not specifically covered in the rules."

Therefore, in a situation like this one, where there is no rule on spectator interference; what you say, goes!
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 27, 2006, 05:36pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 11,765
With the assumption that the person interfering with the play was not connected with either team. There is no rule in the book addressing game interruptions of this nature...not by team members or spectator connected to a team.

The obvious possibilities are neither supported by rule nor supported by the the spirit and intent of the rule.
  • Doing nothing (the shooting team was put at a disadvantage not intended by the rules...can't assume that it would have missed)
  • Counting the basket (the defending team would be put at a disadvantage not intended by the rules...can't assume that it would have gone)
  • Calling a T (on who??).
So, what to do? Whatever the solution, it should be one that gives each team a fair chance to win going forward. With time having expired or nearly so, you couldn't have a alternating possession...that would be equivalent to one of the above...game over.

You could put time back on the clock (enough to run 1 play...say 20 or 30 seconds). Going with restoring time, it's not double jeapardy since we have no idea if the shot was good or not. Give A a chance to run a play, let B defend it.

You could declare an overtime. That could have implications...foul trouble or stamina issues that neither team would have otherwise faced.

I think I'd put time back on the clock and replay the possession. It seems like the most fair and equitable thing to do.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 27, 2006, 05:44pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Just north of hell
Posts: 9,250
Send a message via AIM to Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally Posted by Official99
This is a great question... and one that when it happens, regardless of what age, skill or league will surely stir up questions.

Just remember that according to Rule 2 Section 3 (NHFS) & Rule 2 Section 3 Artile 1 (NCAA) "the referee shall be empowered to make decisions on any points not specifically covered in the rules."

Therefore, in a situation like this one, where there is no rule on spectator interference; what you say, goes!


Except it is addressed

Section 10. Officials’ Duties Related to Conduct
The officials shall:
Art. 1. Penalize unsportsmanlike conduct by a player, coach, substitute, team attendant or follower.
A.R. 14. Who is responsible for behavior of spectators? RULING: The home management or game committee, insofar as it can reasonably be expected to control the spectators, is responsible. The officials may call indirect technical fouls on either team when its supporters act in such a way as to interfere with the proper conduct of the game, such technical fouls do not count as team fouls
A.R. 15. After a foul is called against a home team player, just before the free-thrower releases the ball, he/she is hit by a coin thrown by a spectator. RULING: Assess an indirect technical foul against the home team, award the visiting team two free throws and put the ball in play at the point of interruption. (See Rule 10-5.2.)

Last edited by Dan_ref; Tue Jun 27, 2006 at 05:46pm.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 27, 2006, 05:51pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NH
Posts: 87
Question ummmmm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref


Except it is addressed

Section 10. Officials’ Duties Related to Conduct
The officials shall:
Art. 1. Penalize unsportsmanlike conduct by a player, coach, substitute, team attendant or follower.

A.R. 15. After a foul is called against a home team player, just before the free-thrower releases the ball, he/she is hit by a coin thrown by a spectator. RULING: Assess an indirect technical foul against the home team, award the visiting team two free throws and put the ball in play at the point of interruption. (See Rule 10-5.2.)
Good point, except that is an example of a deadball situation - free throws. What happens in a live ball situation where the potential shot could be worth 3 points?
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 27, 2006, 05:55pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Just north of hell
Posts: 9,250
Send a message via AIM to Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally Posted by Official99
Good point, except that is an example of a deadball situation - free throws. What happens in a live ball situation where the potential shot could be worth 3 points?
A.R. 14. Who is responsible for behavior of spectators? RULING: The home management or game committee, insofar as it can reasonably be expected to control the spectators, is responsible. The officials may call indirect technical fouls on either team when its supporters act in such a way as to interfere with the proper conduct of the game, such technical fouls do not count as team fouls
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
heckling spectator? LMan Baseball 40 Wed May 12, 2004 11:50am
ump as a spectator Little Jimmy Softball 14 Wed Mar 17, 2004 07:17am
One more time for Spectator Interference. dwillis Baseball 12 Fri Oct 17, 2003 02:17pm
Spectator Interference paparada Softball 14 Wed Jul 02, 2003 05:53pm
Spectator interference shipwreck Softball 1 Sun Oct 13, 2002 12:26pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:42pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1