Backcourt Violation - Mavs Heat

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by mcuban

Its obviously a tough call, but its made harder in the NBA because its not where was the defender when the contact was made, its "where are the defenders feat when the offensive player gathers the ball to go up for a shot". With 7footers now able to take long strides. A guy could start the process of putting up a floater 2 feet away from the RA circle , which gives defenders way too much time to slide in. Its an almost impossible call to get right in that circumstance.

Lah me, a fanboy gets outed.

That's funny.

Try "when the offensive player leaves his feet", dickhead- not where the ball is gathered---- same as every other ruleset in the world.

I hate to have to be the one to tell you, but you're not even doing a fair job of imitating Willie the Whiner.

[mcuban]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Lah me, a fanboy gets outed.

That's funny.

Try "when the offensive player leaves his feet", dickhead- not where the ball is gathered---- same as every other ruleset in the world.

you might want to check on that. Since you dont follow the NBA, things may have changed since the Mikan era when you were up to speed
2005-6 casebook p8. #28
"def player must establish himself before the offensive player starts his upward shooting motion in order to draw an offensive foul"


nice try fanboy. No, i take that back. That would be an insult to fanboys everywhere


m

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by mcuban

you might want to check on that. Since you dont follow the NBA, things may have changed since the Mikan era when you were up to speed
2005-6 casebook p8. #28
"def player must establish himself before the offensive player starts his upward shooting motion in order to draw an offensive foul"

You may want to find someone to explain some rules to you, fanboy. What you picked out has got nothing to do at all, in any way,shape or form, with the restricted area circle.

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_c....av=ArticleList

How about you telling us what is applicable?

On second thought, fuggedaboutit. I must be nuts wasting time with these idiot fanboys.

Keep trolling....

[BktBallRef]

Hey Mark, your blog says, "And for the record, I have nothing to say about the finals. That was last season." So why are you here, posting about the Finals? We're dying to know!

[mcuban]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Hey Mark, your blog says, "And for the record, I have nothing to say about the finals. That was last season." So why are you here, posting about the Finals? We're dying to know!

Because this isnt my blog. This is an officials forum.

because i thought i might find some interesting discussion among officials who might offer some interesting perspective. instead i get a lot of the same nonsense in the comments on my blog. So far at least. But im holding out hope.

this would be a great place to get an officials point of view of what they saw in the finals. Instead, anyone who took a viewpoint that questioned the officials, got crucified. They got asked for example. I provided them. Hopefully there will be some discussion on them.

I also like to lurk here to see what people say about the process of becoming an NBA official, what they think of the officiating in the NBA, etc.


Why I post on this and other forums is always different than what i post on my blog. otherwise I would just post it on my blog !

either way, thanks for reading the blog !

m

[BktBallRef]

Oh yeah. Whenever the NBA fines you for your blog, I always pull it up to see what you wrote!

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by mcuban

this would be a great place to get an officials point of view of what they saw in the finals.

Okay, I play along with you that you''re the owner of the Dallas Mavericks. Obviously, I have no way of knowing whether you are or not. Just as obviously, I have to doubt it. But I'll humor you.

First, this is an officiating site. Those who come here and present plays and ask for interpretations will get a correct rulling. Posters who come here to complain about offficiating and how their team was robbed get destroyed. This is our forum. We hear enough of that $hit from fans who don;t know the rules when we're on the floor. We don't have to listen to it here and we won't. Those posters are referred to as fanboys.

Second, the NBA officials are the best basketball officials in the world. Evenso, they make mistakes. Every officials who blows a whistle makes mistakes. They aren't perfect, none of us are. The first perfect game has yet to be officiated, played or coached.

Third, a foul in basketball is the most subjective call in sports, with soccer obviously a close second. It's in the eye of the beholder, within the established standards. Consistency can only extend to a certain point. I don;t buy into the conspriacy theory. I believe just as many calls are missed/made on one end as the other. The number of FTs taken doesn't dick. Styles of play, strategy and other issues alter that number. It's a poor way to examinate officiating.

Finally, The NBA Finals, Mark Cuban and the Dallas Mavericks. You, Don Nelson, and Avery Johnson have done a tremendous job building the team. However, during the Finals, you were the story, not your team. You took the focus off them. While I'm 100% sure you're not an idiot, as I have said you certainly act like one at the games. Perhaps it would be good to separate owner and fan. You gave your guys an excuse to lose. "It's the refs fault. Blame on the refs!"

Josh Howard knows damn well he called a timeout. He asked for it, put his hands together and started moving toward the bench. He had a Chris Webber look on his face if there's ever been one. If he didn't want a timeout, he should have been screaming at the top of his lungs. But he didn't becasue he knew he had screwed up. But the next day, he's full of stories.

You wanted a foul on Wade for that little bit of contact? Were you an NBA fan when Jordan was still dominating? In playoff series against the Pacers, Reggie Miller shoved jordan all the way to the division line, caught the inbounds pass and hit a game winning 3. There was 10 times the contact on that play than there was on the Wade-Terry play. It's not a foul. BTW, that's not Joe DeRosa's call from the lead position.

It's the name of the game these days. Blame the refs. World cup, Super Bowl, NBA Finals, youth league baseball, HS football, it makes no difference. People like yourself, people of position and power, just make it worse.

That's my point of view. Best of luck next year.

[mcuban]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Okay, I play along with you that you''re the owner of the Dallas Mavericks. Obviously, I have no way of knowing whether you are or not. Just as obviously, I have to doubt it. But I'll humor you.

its me

First, this is an officiating site. Those who come here and present plays and ask for interpretations will get a correct rulling. Posters who come here to complain about offficiating and how their team was robbed get destroyed. This is our forum. We hear enough of that $hit from fans who don;t know the rules when we're on the floor. We don't have to listen to it here and we won't. Those posters are referred to as fanboys.

understood

Second, the NBA officials are the best basketball officials in the world. Evenso, they make mistakes. Every officials who blows a whistle makes mistakes. They aren't perfect, none of us are. The first perfect game has yet to be officiated, played or coached.

The top ones are, not all. The top 60 arent the top 60 in the world. But they should be. This isnt a knock on the officials or the effort they put in. Its a slam of the hiring and training practices.



Third, a foul in basketball is the most subjective call in sports, with soccer obviously a close second. It's in the eye of the beholder, within the established standards. Consistency can only extend to a certain point. I don;t buy into the conspriacy theory. I believe just as many calls are missed/made on one end as the other. The number of FTs taken doesn't dick. Styles of play, strategy and other issues alter that number. It's a poor way to examinate officiating.

You never heard a word from me comparing number of free throws taken. Nor the number of fouls. i dont buy into the conspiracy theory either. I think over a course of years, the calls even out. In the course of several games, it depends on how evenly matched the 2 teams are and who the officials are. Not all officials are equally good. the disparity can be large. Thats a problem in the NBA.




Finally, The NBA Finals, Mark Cuban and the Dallas Mavericks. You, Don Nelson, and Avery Johnson have done a tremendous job building the team. However, during the Finals, you were the story, not your team. You took the focus off them. While I'm 100% sure you're not an idiot, as I have said you certainly act like one at the games. Perhaps it would be good to separate owner and fan. You gave your guys an excuse to lose. "It's the refs fault. Blame on the refs!"


I wont tell you how to be a ref. If you think the headlines you see, or the 1 minute segments you watch reflect reality, well then...I might as well tell you how to officiate. Our team didnt use any excuses. Our team didnt blame the games on the refs.

Everyone saw what they saw. They saw me get pissed at Derosa for being out of position and missing a crucial call. It happens. you didnt see a single player complain to the officials. You saw me and AJ question calls that were questionable.

You are right, officials miss calls. And officials can hit sour stretches. The best ones dont. Some do. enough said there.





Josh Howard knows damn well he called a timeout. He asked for it, put his hands together and started moving toward the bench. He had a Chris Webber look on his face if there's ever been one. If he didn't want a timeout, he should have been screaming at the top of his lungs. But he didn't becasue he knew he had screwed up. But the next day, he's full of stories.

No he didnt. Watch the tape. Watch it 10 times. Watch every timeout called in the nba this year. In none of them will you see a player make the timeout signal WITHOUT looking at and at least trying to get the attention of the official. Particularly in a game where the arena is loud. It NEVER happens. You couldnt find a single instance in the NBA where a timeout was given where some sort of contact wasnt made with the official. Josh never spoke to, tapped on a shoulder, or even looked at any of the officials. Josh says it. The tape confirms it.

What he was trying to do is confirm with AJ what to do. Again, you couldnt hear anything in the building, it was too loud. He couldnt just shout over. How else would he confirm with his coach to make sure he understoo what he wanted ? (and no, you cant cover every instance in a huddle before hand, and good for josh for wanting to confirm it anyway). so he walked towards the coach making the Timeout sign and AJ made the timeout sign back. Happens all the time.

mistake by the officials .The fact that the league issued a statement to contrary, well look at the tape again and make your own decisions.


You wanted a foul on Wade for that little bit of contact? Were you an NBA fan when Jordan was still dominating? In playoff series against the Pacers, Reggie Miller shoved jordan all the way to the division line, caught the inbounds pass and hit a game winning 3. There was 10 times the contact on that play than there was on the Wade-Terry play. It's not a foul. BTW, that's not Joe DeRosa's call from the lead position.

dont start with relative calls from 10 years ago. Thats fanboy material. '

And no, it was Salvatores call. Its Derosas job to rotate to get an angle when so match action is happening out of his primary. He stood there. Staring at the action.



It's the name of the game these days. Blame the refs. World cup, Super Bowl, NBA Finals, youth league baseball, HS football, it makes no difference. People like yourself, people of position and power, just make it worse.

That's my point of view. Best of luck next year.

In this area, you have no idea what you are talking about. I got fined for saying that we should use the best refs in the playoffs, not use the playoffs as a means of promoting refs (37 of 60 refs officiated in the playoffs this year).

Blame the refs. no. You dont see me blaming joe or danny crawford or javie Even Bavetta. They all called GREAT games. GREAT GREAT games.

Not everyone is up to their standards.

Thats a shame, because with the resourcesavailable to the NBA, we could get the rest of the staff far, far closer.


have you ever tried to make it to the NBA ? talked to those who have ?

Do you realize there are about 10x as many officials in the NBA that have called Belmont vs Winthrop as Duke vs UNC ? Why do you think that is ?

Im curious from to hear about it from someone in the business ?

[mcuban]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You may want to find someone to explain some rules to you, fanboy. What you picked out has got nothing to do at all, in any way,shape or form, with the restricted area circle.

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_c....av=ArticleList

How about you telling us what is applicable?

On second thought, fuggedaboutit. I must be nuts wasting time with these idiot fanboys.

Keep trolling....

nice try. I thought you at least had an understanding of the rules.

I will post the rest of the casebook writeup for you.
Player A1 is DRIVING TO THE BASKET for a LAYUP. What is the DECIDING POINT BETWEEN BLOCK OR CHARGE.

A defender must establish his position before the offesnive player starts his upward shooting motion with the ball in order to draw an offensive foul. If a defender SLIDES into position (this is an RA thing.. get it) after the ball starts upward, a block foul should be assessed.

Incase you dont understand, let me explain the rules further to you. The words SLIDES into position is critical. You see, if you are the primary defender, you dont slide into position, you are actively guarding the player with the ball, in which case the RA DOESNT APPLY AT ALL.

So the only time the RA applies is for a 2ndary defender who is SLIDING in to take a charge.

in order to be "legal" and take the charge, the 2ndary defender must have been there BEFORE HE STARTED HIS SHOOTING MOTION. That is what makes him legal Mr i wish i knew as much as a fanboy boy...

you guys are so easy on this forum. i expected more

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mcuban

nice try. I thought you at least had an understanding of the rules.

I will post the rest of the casebook writeup for you.
Player A1 is DRIVING TO THE BASKET for a LAYUP. What is the DECIDING POINT BETWEEN BLOCK OR CHARGE.

A defender must establish his position before the offesnive player starts his upward shooting motion with the ball in order to draw an offensive foul. If a defender SLIDES into position (this is an RA thing.. get it) after the ball starts upward, a block foul should be assessed.

Incase you dont understand, let me explain the rules further to you. The words SLIDES into position is critical. You see, if you are the primary defender, you dont slide into position, you are actively guarding the player with the ball, in which case the RA DOESNT APPLY AT ALL.

So the only time the RA applies is for a 2ndary defender who is SLIDING in to take a charge.

in order to be "legal" and take the charge, the 2ndary defender must have been there BEFORE HE STARTED HIS SHOOTING MOTION. That is what makes him legal Mr i wish i knew as much as a fanboy boy...

you guys are so easy on this forum. i expected more

I hate to rain on your parade, but if this rule says nothing about RA, then it's not about RA specifically. It can also be about the primary defender, as it looks to me like the definition of defensive position.

Primary defenders can slide into position if they've fallen out of position. It happens all the time, and it's how you generally get a charge called against a primary defender.