Backcourt Violation - Mavs Heat

[mcrowder]

Well damn... I've now been thrown in with a group with Mark Cuban. Where's that cyanide pill when you need it.

(Note - on the timeout, I think it's hard to tell from the TV what really happened - it appears to me in replay that Josh is making the TO signal to his coach, asking a question. But I have to say that if I see that signal on the football field from a player, even if he's looking at his coach, I'm calling the TO too, just like they did last night.)

Thanks for clearing up the backcourt thing for me. If I'd heard Cuban was complaining about it, I would have not brought it up, knowing that if Cuban agreed with me, I must be wrong.

[BktBallRef]

Yep, you can see Howard signal from the camera angle but it's clear that he's put his hands together and is now moving towards the Mavs bench. Further, you never saw him protesting that he didn't call timeout. He had that stupid Chris Webber look on his face. Joe Crawford issued a statement after the game, ""Josh Howard goes to Joe DeRosa and not only once, but twice asks for timeout. Forced to call it, simple as that."

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Yep, you can see Howard signal from the camera angle but it's clear that he's put his hands together and is now moving towards the Mavs bench. Further, you never saw him protesting that he didn't call timeout. He had that stupid Chris Webber look on his face. Joe Crawford issued a statement after the game, ""Josh Howard goes to Joe DeRosa and not only once, but twice asks for timeout. Forced to call it, simple as that."

Rookie coaching mistake by Avery. Don't assume anything. Since this is a two shot foul, call a player over before the first shot and tell him explicitly what you want done. Don't expect the player to be on the same page as you when you have an opportunity to communicate directly.

This could easily have been a move to freeze Wade at the line, so the analysts who are blaming the officials are once again shown to be clueless.

[Kajun Ref N Texas]

We can't blame the officials, but they sure could have done some things to keep themselves out of trouble. If DeRosa whould have been aware of the game situation, he could have asked Howard if he wanted the TO before or after the free throw.

Of course this would all be moot if Salvatore hadn't kicked the Nowistki foul against Wade.

[BOBBYMO]

Originally Posted by Kajun Ref N Texas

We can't blame the officials, but they sure could have done some things to keep themselves out of trouble. If DeRosa whould have been aware of the game situation, he could have asked Howard if he wanted the TO before or after the free throw.

Of course this would all be moot if Salvatore hadn't kicked the Nowistki foul against Wade.

I think that if the player isnt aware of the game sittuation then the ref has to cal it.

Its not our job to make decisions for the coach. If the player calls the T.O. and we don't give it to them it takes away an advantage fro the defensive team ( since now they are out and can't advance the ball).

JMO

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by BOBBYMO

I think that if the player isnt aware of the game sittuation then the ref has to cal it.

Its not our job to make decisions for the coach. If the player calls the T.O. and we don't give it to them it takes away an advantage fro the defensive team ( since now they are out and can't advance the ball).

JMO

Not so sure about that...while Howard was asking for the t.o., Avery and his ***'t coach (the one who used to be a head coach someplace) were both yelling "No" and giving the big wave-off sign...the ref certainly could have been aware of that...I think that's why Crawford came in and tried to talk de Rosa out of it, but he'd already blown and signalled so by then it really was too late.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Not so sure about that...while Howard was asking for the t.o., Avery and his asst coach (the one who used to be a head coach someplace) were both yelling "No" and giving the big wave-off sign...the ref certainly could have been aware of that...I think that's why Crawford came in and tried to talk de Rosa out of it, but he'd already blown and signalled so by then it really was too late.

Crawford didn't try to talk DeRosa out of it. Salvatore did. Why? Because he heard the Mav coaches. But he did not know Howard are made the request. Joe says, "Bennett, he requested it twice and signaled." Then Bennett says. "I didn't realize that." Joe again signals TO. Crawford then just tried to calm Johnson down and then went to Joe and Bennett just to make sure everyone was in agreement. Once DeRosa whistles the TO, it 's a TO.

Bottom line, Howard screwed up and Johnson screwed up. It would have been unfair to Miami to have said, "That didn't mean to call TO. We'll just let that go," after the TO has obviously been granted.

[DPR]

yeah i saw that im still a little bit confused

Rule 10 Section X - Ball in Backcourt
a. A player shall not be the first to touch a ball which he or a teammate caused to go from frontcourt to backcourt while his team was in control of the ball. EXCEPTION: Rule 8-Section III-e (EXCEPTION).

Rule 8, Section III
e. Any ball out-of-bounds in a team's frontcourt or at the midcourt line cannot be passed into the backcourt. On all backcourt and midcourt violations, the ball shall be awarded to the opposing team at the midcourt line, and must be passed into the frontcourt.
EXCEPTION: During the last two minutes of the fourth period and/or any overtime period, the ball may be passed anywhere (frontcourt or backcourt) on the court.

i know this. but what does it say about jumping from the frontcourt, catching the ball without landing in the backcourt, and then landing in the backcourt with the ball.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Kajun Ref N Texas

We can't blame the officials, but they sure could have done some things to keep themselves out of trouble. If DeRosa whould have been aware of the game situation, he could have asked Howard if he wanted the TO before or after the free throw.

Of course this would all be moot if Salvatore hadn't kicked the Nowistki foul against Wade.

Nowitski's right hand is clearly in Wade's back as he is releasing the ball. He jerks it away as he hears the whistle. That was a foul in the first quarter, it's a foul in the 4th quarter.

We've had the discussions before regarding timeouts. It's not my job to question the timing of your request. If you ask for timeout TWICE, signal for it as you're walking toward your bench as Howard did, you're getting a timeout.

Instead of blaming the officials, how about we hold the Mavs responsible for two stupid moves in the final 9 seconds of play? then there's the idiot Cuban, getting into a yelling match with Heat fans and yelling at DeRosa about he rule that he's completely wrong on.

[Kajun Ref N Texas]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Nowitski's right hand is clearly in Wade's back as he is releasing the ball. He jerks it away as he hears the whistle. That was a foul in the first quarter, it's a foul in the 4th quarter.

We've had the discussions before regarding timeouts. It's not my job to question the timing of your request. If you ask for timeout TWICE, signal for it as you're walking toward your bench as Howard did, you're getting a timeout.

Instead of blaming the officials, how about we hold the Mavs responsible for two stupid moves in the final 9 seconds of play? then there's the idiot Cuban, getting into a yelling match with Heat fans and yelling at DeRosa about he rule that he's completely wrong on.

Not blaming the officials, as my opening line states, the Mavs certainly have much blame to go around, Nowitski missing another critical free throw, Howard missing two, Nowitski being absent most of the game, etc, etc.

Just pointing out that if DeRosa used some common sense officiating, we wouldn't be taking about the officials, we would be talking about the Mav's blowing the game.

And BTW, still a rotten foul call, first quarter or fourth.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Kajun Ref N Texas

Not blaming the officials, as my opening line states....

Just pointing out that if DeRosa used some common sense officiating, we wouldn't be taking about the officials.....

Oh no, you're not blaming the officials at all.

Yup, I can certainly see that.

Fanboys...

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by Kajun Ref N Texas

Of course this would all be moot if Salvatore hadn't kicked the Nowistki foul against Wade.

Harris was holding onto Wade's arm as he went up. Some people have speculated they gave the foul to Nowitzki because Harris had 5 fouls, and Nowitzki was in the neighborhood anyway. See below.

[BktBallRef]

How about that, Kajun? Nowitski in his back, Harris holding his arm. A picture is worth a thousand words, ain't it?

I guess we should listen to critics like you as opposed to an NBA veteran official of over 20 years.

[Kajun Ref N Texas]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

How about that, Kajun? Nowitski in his back, Harris holding his arm. A picture is worth a thousand words, ain't it?

I guess we should listen to critics like you as opposed to an NBA veteran official of over 20 years.

Now, now, I didn't say that Harris didn't foul Wade, only that Nowitski didn't. And I do agree that this picture is conclusive...It conclusively shows that Harris's hand is between Wade's elbow and the camera.

Frustrated Mav's Fan

[Jay R]

Chuck,

The rules you cited don't seem to specify about jumping from the frontcourt, catching the ball and landing in the backcourt. The exception you cited is about the last 2 minutes, not about keeping the status you had when you left the floor.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm not sure you cited the rule completely.

JP