Should I have been the hard-***?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

BITS, give me a break. This is a game outside of the NFHS/NCAA/NBA regular season/tournament and the 5th of a 5 game set for you. Most referees used to play the game they officiate because they can't get it out of their system. So from time to time they will grab a ball and start shooting. I doubt that you will find anyone here that hasn't done it at least once.

Being a harda$$ about this doesn't do anything to improve the game the official is going to call or make working with this person any better either. Telling the assignor is also a bit ridiculous, unless its a directive from them and they want to hear about it. If you must say something, then maybe something like, "we never know who is watching", or "I have an evaluator here, they can evaluate you too." That might be enough to get them to pull their head out.

The officiating community is small and some of my best best friends are officials. In time, you might need this official to be an advocate for you, and all that person will remember is what a jerk you were about some off season game that didn't matter or will ever be remembered by anyone.

Some people take officiating seriously- all year round.

Some people (they aren't really officials imo) just don't care.

I'll take the official over the rec-league warrior. Every time. Again, jmo....

Hope all that practise improves your shot......

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

.... Hope all that practise improves your shot......

As expected, an assumption has been made. If it matters, I save all my shots for the driveway with my kids. I subscribe to the idea that you never know who is watching our games, sometimes assignors have a way of just showing up for no particular reason other than to look for new talent.

The official in question was said to have not been paying any real attention to his partner, it happens. There are times when we see people, in this case, someone close to a Board member, and he chose to speak to them. Alot of us have done it, well except for JR and Chuck. He was also offering his job to some fanboys. I have read many posts on this forum that have said essentially the same thing. Maybe the official actually came to this website and put this message into practice. Maybe since it was one officials 5th game, a call was missed, and the partner was trying to stick up for his partner by saying if you can do it better, come in and give it a try.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

As expected, an assumption has been made. If it matters, I save all my shots for the driveway with my kids. I subscribe to the idea that you never know who is watching our games, sometimes assignors have a way of just showing up for no particular reason other than to look for new talent.

The official in question was said to have not been paying any real attention to his partner, it happens. There are times when we see people, in this case, someone close to a Board member, and he chose to speak to them. Alot of us have done it, well except for JR and Chuck. He was also offering his job to some fanboys. I have read many posts on this forum that have said essentially the same thing. Maybe the official actually came to this website and put this message into practice. Maybe since it was one officials 5th game, a call was missed, and the partner was trying to stick up for his partner by saying if you can do it better, come in and give it a try.

I'm an assignor. Have been for years. I know how my fellow assignors think and what they want and expect from their officials also. As an assignor, and as an official, I don't agree with you or any of your assumptions, and I've never met another assignor that would agree with you either. It's simply a matter of expecting at all times a certain standard of professional behavior from the people representing our association. Sometimes we have to put up with the goobers like the one described above simply because we need bodies. That doesn't mean that we don't want to know whatinthehell is going on or that we're gonna turn a blind eye on behavior that makes all of our officials look bad. Perception is reality in the fanboy's eyes.

However, my assumption also is that you personally will never understand anyway what I'm trying to say. So....keep doing what you do and forget it.

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I'm an assignor. Have been for years. I know how my fellow assignors think and what they want and expect from their officials also. As an assignor, and as an official, I don't agree with you or any of your assumptions, and I've never met another assignor that would agree with you either. It's simply a matter of expecting at all times a certain standard of professional behavior from the people representing our association. Sometimes we have to put up with the goobers like the one described above simply because we need bodies. That doesn't mean that we don't want to know whatinthehell is going on or that we're gonna turn a blind eye on behavior that makes all of our officials look bad. Perception is reality in the fanboy's eyes.

However, my assumption also is that you personally will never understand anyway what I'm trying to say. So....keep doing what you do and forget it.

I do understand what you are saying, because the officials you put on the floor represent the assignor.

If you reread my posts, I didn't make any assumptions. I didn't advocate what the official was doing. I merely said it happens. I also said that I believe there is usually someone at a game, solely, to observe the officials, and I act accordingly. I am one of those officials that takes each game seriously. I even offered a suggestion as to how to handle the situation. What the official does with it is their business.

The game and actions of the official in question happened during the "off-season" when not all officials feel the same way. If the guy is just a warm body, then the assignor got what was needed out of him. If that is the case then why assign this official. It would be the assignors fault for not putting a more professional/responsible person on the floor. Officials are an extension of the assignor and if if the assignor chooses to put this type of official on the floor, the assignor should know who he employs.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

The game and actions of the official in question happened during the "off-season" when not all officials feel the same way. If the guy is just a warm body, then the assignor got what was needed out of him. If that is the case then why assign this official. It would be the assignors fault for not putting a more professional/responsible person on the floor. Officials are an extension of the assignor and if if the assignor chooses to put this type of official on the floor, the assignor should know who he employs.

Where I live, a lot of "off-season" games are assigned by people who are not assignors during the regular season. So it is not unusual for a "warm body" to be at these games. Sometimes the off-season are assigned by coaches, officials (who are not necessarily well respected), ADs or some AAU coach that hires who he knows. When you take these games, you cannot expect everyone is going to come to the game with the same level of professionalism or attitude about the game. Also these games are a cash cow for many officials and they are not concerned about all the things people here seemed to be worried about. This is why I personally would not say a word or let it upset me. I have been in enough situations during the off-season where you cannot be so uptight about what your partner does. Half the time I just want a warm body to work with so at the very least I do not have to run as much. My expectations at this time of year are just not that high.

Peace

[Ref_ Fred]

This is why I personally would not say a word or let it upset me. I have been in enough situations during the off-season where you cannot be so uptight about what your partner does. Half the time I just want a warm body to work with so at the very least I do not have to run as much. My expectations at this time of year are just not that high.

I guess you are correct, But it's tough. When I put on the stripes, My focus is in calling a good game no great game with the utmost respect of all parties involved, wheather regular season, off season anytime. I respect that position. Ultimalty it's for the the players, and I'm being paid to do a great job. It they wanted someone to call a lousy game they wouldn't hire expereinced officials. they would take on the fanboys from the stands..

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Ref_ Fred

I guess you are correct, But it's tough. When I put on the stripes, My focus is in calling a good game no great game with the utmost respect of all parties involved, wheather regular season, off season anytime. I respect that position. Ultimalty it's for the the players, and I'm being paid to do a great job. It they wanted someone to call a lousy game they wouldn't hire expereinced officials. they would take on the fanboys from the stands..

Even for the players it is the "off season." You do not any championships that hang on any banner for a win or a loss that takes place in the off-season. I never said to not give it your all or to put your best foot forward. It is just a laid back environment and I am not going to expect at every timeout my partner and I to stand on the opposite blocks. I have even worked "off-season" games with officials that I do not respect, but I still have to get through the game. The foul reporting is laid back, the coaching box rules are non-existed and definitely uniform rules are extremely laid back. I am not going get upset if my partner is not perfect for a couple of hours. It might be annoying, but there are worse things that can happen.

Peace

[rockyroad]

Knowing icallfouls personally (soory Jim, I know you wanted to keep that a secret so it didn't ruin your rep.!!) I can guarantee you that he would NOT act like this person in the OP, and that he takes officiating VERY seriously.

I still think that confronting the guy in the OP just isn't going to accomplish anything, and the comment that the OP'er made when the partner asked for the ball to shoot around just didn't serve any constructive purpose...wait until later and then let the guy know what he did that was unprofessional and how much it hurt the crew...

As far as the advocate business goes - I had a situation with a newer ref years ago who wanted to do a middle school double header wearing his baseball hat backwards, clowning around with the kids, etc...the guy was just out of college, was reffing for spending money, and didn't know any better. We had a chat after the games - took him out for a pop and we discussed professionalism and why it is so important in our hobby. 12 years later that guy was the President of our Association, a State rated official, etc...when some dumb-a$$ parents came to the board complaing that i was biased against their son's HS team, that guy was MY advocate and defended me fiercely...so don't assume that because he's screwing around now means he won't go anywhere in the future - be an idiot to him now and when the time comes, he won't have your back.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

when some dumb-a$$ parents came to the board complaing that i was biased against their son's HS team, that guy was MY advocate and defended me fiercely...so don't assume that because he's screwing around now means he won't go anywhere in the future - be an idiot to him now and when the time comes, he won't have your back.

Rocky, while I completely understand and agree with your points that you should not be an idiot to others and that people change for the better, I would hope and think his decision to defend you "fiercely" was based upon your abilities and integrity as a ref today, and not whether or not you were an a-hole to him 12 years ago.

Originally Posted by grizwald

Maybe there isn't enough quality refs to completely cover middle school age girls ball in the summer, given that there is plenty of competition for your services.

Griz, it also has a lot to do with supply & demand, vacations, personal schedules, family, full-time jobs, etc, etc. Speaking for myself, from mid-November thru February basketball is a high priority and I adjust a lot my life around my game schedule. But March through mid-November I put things back in the proper perspective and I take my games based almost solely on my personal desire to work certain games and/or tournaments. Of course, I have off-season assignors who have earned more of my loyalty than others, so I will always help them out as much as possible. But there are times when an assignor will call and ask me to work a certain level of ball I will say 'no' just because I'd rather be doing something else that weekend.

Secondly, remember, in the off-season officials are looking to do things to advance their careers. And the higher an official gets on his/her personal ladder of success the least likely he/she will be available or willing to do certain levels of games.

Lastly, remember young and/or inexperienced officials need to get their feet wet and earn their wings (am I mixing metaphors) somewhere, and a lot times it's in those elementary and middle school-aged games where that occurs. You can't just throw brand new officials on a JV or Varsity court, their has to be a "minor league system" for them to learn and grow and make their mistake as referees.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Rocky, while I completely understand and agree with your points that you should not be an idiot to others and that people change for the better, I would hope and think his decision to defend you "fiercely" was based upon your abilities and integrity as a ref today, and not whether or not you were an a-hole to him 12 years ago.


.

Of course it was...But...had I been an a-hole to him years ago, would he have been willing to defend me? The old saying "what goes around, comes around" pops into my head here.