Should I have been the hard-***?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Really??? And you are assuming that he gives a rat's @$$ what his partner thinks? Based on the type of behavior he is already exhibiting I'm thinking he's really not too much concerned about what his partner thinks. It may just be me but I'm thinking that the assignor chewing him out or the assignor not giving him anymore games carries a lot more punch than "joe blow" referee partner jumping in his butt.

You say Now what are you going to do to enforce your stance with him? He might just tell you "thanks for your opinion but I'm fine with what I'm doing." (or maybe he'll just say "F*** off")." Now what do you do?

Like I said before, you have to decide if confronting him during the game is going to make things better or not...if not, why do it then? Wait and confront him later - as I think Tony already said also...

I have had summer league games where I've told my partner at halftime to either pull his head out and ref likes he's supposed to or else just leave and I will do the 2nd half myself...

[icallfouls]

BITS, give me a break. This is a game outside of the NFHS/NCAA/NBA regular season/tournament and the 5th of a 5 game set for you. Most referees used to play the game they officiate because they can't get it out of their system. So from time to time they will grab a ball and start shooting. I doubt that you will find anyone here that hasn't done it at least once.

Being a harda$$ about this doesn't do anything to improve the game the official is going to call or make working with this person any better either. Telling the assignor is also a bit ridiculous, unless its a directive from them and they want to hear about it. If you must say something, then maybe something like, "we never know who is watching", or "I have an evaluator here, they can evaluate you too." That might be enough to get them to pull their head out.

The officiating community is small and some of my best best friends are officials. In time, you might need this official to be an advocate for you, and all that person will remember is what a jerk you were about some off season game that didn't matter or will ever be remembered by anyone.

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

So from time to time they will grab a ball and start shooting. I doubt that you will find anyone here that hasn't done it at least once.

I haven't. :shrug:

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

I haven't. :shrug:

That is why you are the greatest official this forum has ever seen.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

That is why you are the greatest official this forum has ever seen.

LOL!!!

Peace

[Ref_ Fred]

This is a game outside of the NFHS/NCAA/NBA regular season/tournament and the 5th of a 5 game set for you. Most referees used to play the game they officiate because they can't get it out of their system

Why does it matter if it is NFHS, NCAA, or NBA, you are getting paid for a service.
The shooting of the ball was the straw that broke the camels back.

In pre-game he was so busy chatting with the player who was keeping score (the son of one of our local board members, coincidence?), that he will barely acknowledge my presence, let alone engage in any kind of pre-game. I have to ask him his name.
Reacts to criticism from the crowd by talking back, several times. He offers people the opportunity to come do it better and even threatens to call the game.

The orginal poster also express the above. So it wasn't just shooting the ball around.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

BITS, give me a break. This is a game outside of the NFHS/NCAA/NBA regular season/tournament and the 5th of a 5 game set for you. Most referees used to play the game they officiate because they can't get it out of their system. So from time to time they will grab a ball and start shooting. I doubt that you will find anyone here that hasn't done it at least once.

Being a harda$$ about this doesn't do anything to improve the game the official is going to call or make working with this person any better either. Telling the assignor is also a bit ridiculous, unless its a directive from them and they want to hear about it. If you must say something, then maybe something like, "we never know who is watching", or "I have an evaluator here, they can evaluate you too." That might be enough to get them to pull their head out.

The officiating community is small and some of my best best friends are officials. In time, you might need this official to be an advocate for you, and all that person will remember is what a jerk you were about some off season game that didn't matter or will ever be remembered by anyone.

Some people take officiating seriously- all year round.

Some people (they aren't really officials imo) just don't care.

I'll take the official over the rec-league warrior. Every time. Again, jmo....

Hope all that practise improves your shot......

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

I doubt that you will find anyone here that hasn't done it at least once.

I haven't. But that's because it would a lot more humiliating than anything else I could do. I can barely ref, and I definitely CAN'T play!!

[LepTalBldgs]

The crowd (summer or not) has enough to mock me about without seeing me miss free throws. In addition to being generally unprofessional, why give them more ammunition?

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

.... Hope all that practise improves your shot......

As expected, an assumption has been made. If it matters, I save all my shots for the driveway with my kids. I subscribe to the idea that you never know who is watching our games, sometimes assignors have a way of just showing up for no particular reason other than to look for new talent.

The official in question was said to have not been paying any real attention to his partner, it happens. There are times when we see people, in this case, someone close to a Board member, and he chose to speak to them. Alot of us have done it, well except for JR and Chuck. He was also offering his job to some fanboys. I have read many posts on this forum that have said essentially the same thing. Maybe the official actually came to this website and put this message into practice. Maybe since it was one officials 5th game, a call was missed, and the partner was trying to stick up for his partner by saying if you can do it better, come in and give it a try.

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

That is why you are the greatest official this forum has ever seen.

Not sure why you want to make this personal, or why you need to be sarcastic. (That's usually my job.) You made a statement, and I gave you information. Either it's interesting to you or not. But you made an assumption (nobody on the forum could deny ever shooting around during a TO) and it was false. I just thought you should know. Not trying to make myself sound better than you. Just giving info.

I'm obviously NOT the greatest official this forum has ever seen. It took me 3 years to move from JV to the Varsity list for my college association. I washed out of my pro league after only one season. I've never done a state final. But the fact is that I've never shot around during a game. Take it for what it's worth. Maybe nothing. Again, I say. . . :shrug:

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

The officiating community is small and some of my best best friends are officials. In time, you might need this official to be an advocate for you, and all that person will remember is what a jerk you were about some off season game that didn't matter or will ever be remembered by anyone.

I doubt very seriously an official who carries himself in the manner described in the OP will be somebody you'll want or need as an advocate. It's best to choose your advocates very wisely.

I agree that confronting such a ref will probably not generate any positive results. Unless it is someone I am mentoring I don't see it as my place to try to correct or address another officials behavior directly.

But I see nothing wrong with apprising the assignor of the situation if you feel strongly enough that it is a problem that needs to be addressed. We all have the right to address to our bosses (so to speak) workplace environments that make us uncomfortable. The assignor might think it's no big deal or the assignor may address the issue or the assignor might take a few minutes one game to observe the situation for him/herself.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

As expected, an assumption has been made. If it matters, I save all my shots for the driveway with my kids. I subscribe to the idea that you never know who is watching our games, sometimes assignors have a way of just showing up for no particular reason other than to look for new talent.

The official in question was said to have not been paying any real attention to his partner, it happens. There are times when we see people, in this case, someone close to a Board member, and he chose to speak to them. Alot of us have done it, well except for JR and Chuck. He was also offering his job to some fanboys. I have read many posts on this forum that have said essentially the same thing. Maybe the official actually came to this website and put this message into practice. Maybe since it was one officials 5th game, a call was missed, and the partner was trying to stick up for his partner by saying if you can do it better, come in and give it a try.

I'm an assignor. Have been for years. I know how my fellow assignors think and what they want and expect from their officials also. As an assignor, and as an official, I don't agree with you or any of your assumptions, and I've never met another assignor that would agree with you either. It's simply a matter of expecting at all times a certain standard of professional behavior from the people representing our association. Sometimes we have to put up with the goobers like the one described above simply because we need bodies. That doesn't mean that we don't want to know whatinthehell is going on or that we're gonna turn a blind eye on behavior that makes all of our officials look bad. Perception is reality in the fanboy's eyes.

However, my assumption also is that you personally will never understand anyway what I'm trying to say. So....keep doing what you do and forget it.

[Ref_ Fred]

I agree that confronting such a ref will probably not generate any positive results. Unless it is someone I am mentoring I don't see it as my place to try to correct or address another officials behavior directly.

My belief is still to have a discussion with the other official at the moment. You never know maybe he will listen. I stated earlier, we are judged as a team. I want to leave that court knowing we worked as a team with as much professionalism as possible. JR you are correct, fanboys have enough to say about how we handle the game I don't need to give them anymore reason to come at us.

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I'm an assignor. Have been for years. I know how my fellow assignors think and what they want and expect from their officials also. As an assignor, and as an official, I don't agree with you or any of your assumptions, and I've never met another assignor that would agree with you either. It's simply a matter of expecting at all times a certain standard of professional behavior from the people representing our association. Sometimes we have to put up with the goobers like the one described above simply because we need bodies. That doesn't mean that we don't want to know whatinthehell is going on or that we're gonna turn a blind eye on behavior that makes all of our officials look bad. Perception is reality in the fanboy's eyes.

However, my assumption also is that you personally will never understand anyway what I'm trying to say. So....keep doing what you do and forget it.

I do understand what you are saying, because the officials you put on the floor represent the assignor.

If you reread my posts, I didn't make any assumptions. I didn't advocate what the official was doing. I merely said it happens. I also said that I believe there is usually someone at a game, solely, to observe the officials, and I act accordingly. I am one of those officials that takes each game seriously. I even offered a suggestion as to how to handle the situation. What the official does with it is their business.

The game and actions of the official in question happened during the "off-season" when not all officials feel the same way. If the guy is just a warm body, then the assignor got what was needed out of him. If that is the case then why assign this official. It would be the assignors fault for not putting a more professional/responsible person on the floor. Officials are an extension of the assignor and if if the assignor chooses to put this type of official on the floor, the assignor should know who he employs.