"Honey Bunny"

[coachgbert]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Fred, I don't think the coach was suggesting that the officials are supposed to teach those things. He was merely commenting on the fact that some people are offended by their girls being called ladies, while not being bothered at all that they are not, in fact, ladies.

Yes, that's what I was trying to convey. I apologize if there was a misunderstanding. I just came from a tournament where rudeness amongst players, parents, fans and coaches was rampant. I was lamenting the fact that it seems to be a fashion in AAU to NOT act like ladies, all in the name of "competition". I witnessed some ugly scenes, both on and off the court. While we were never part of it, I'm sorry my 8th grade young ladies had to see it.

Coach Gbert

[Junker]

Maybe we should go with X's and Y's? I'm a ladies and gentlemen person. I see no problem with it.

[ChuckElias]

You mean, instead of "ladies and gentlemen", we say "XX's and XY's"? I'm offended!!

[JRutledge]

Once again, the reason the term "lady" or "act like a lady" offends someone because it puts women in a box of behavior that is seen as traditional or subservient to men. Now if you do not believe me, say that around some very educated women or women that have careers and you might see what I mean. Also this does not offend everyone nor should it. I just find it funny that a bunch of men want to talk about what is not offensive to anyone when the term is not about them or their role in society. Also this point is made to educate those that might be confronted with someone that gets upset about this issue. You have the right to do whatever you like, but if you are an official that is seen as "offensive" and continue to use those terms, you might have to deal with some consequences you are not willing to deal with. That is why the person that raised this issue said that he avoids the term all together. This also plays differently in different parts of the country and with people different social economic status. I cannot behave the same way in Naperville as I would when I am on the Westside of Chicago. Not all language is going to be seen as appropriate or offensive to everyone nor will you have to deal with the same consequences for using certain language in different places.

Peace

[Ref_ Fred]

Fred, I don't think the coach was suggesting that the officials are supposed to teach those things. He was merely commenting on the fact that some people are offended by their girls being called ladies, while not being bothered at all that they are not, in fact, ladies.

Sorry for miss-reading your thoughts. thanks for the clearification.

As for AAU tournament, it's getting ugly. The rudness by the Coaches, Fans and of course it trickles right down to the players. They seem to see the adults do and get away with it, so why not us kids? I actually did a tournament in NO Va a month ago and had a parent ejected from the gymnasium for mis conduct. I know we need to have our focus on the game and not the stands, but this gentleman( I'm being kind) was so loud and out of control with his language. I stopped the game cold, alert security to have him removed. Believe it or not He was waiting for me to walk out of the gym to confront me on it. This is why we lack the respect of the players. It come from the parents down....

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Ref_ Fred

Believe it or not He was waiting for me to walk out of the gym to confront me on it.

...and?

What happened?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Ref_ Fred

Sorry for miss-reading your thoughts. thanks for the clearification.

As for AAU tournament, it's getting ugly. The rudness by the Coaches, Fans and of course it trickles right down to the players. They seem to see the adults do and get away with it, so why not us kids? I actually did a tournament in NO Va a month ago and had a parent ejected from the gymnasium for mis conduct. I know we need to have our focus on the game and not the stands, but this gentleman( I'm being kind) was so loud and out of control with his language. I stopped the game cold, alert security to have him removed. Believe it or not He was waiting for me to walk out of the gym to confront me on it. This is why we lack the respect of the players. It come from the parents down....

Sounds like your AAU administrators up that way need to tighten things up. I'm down in Southeastern VA and I have noticed a considerable improvement in coaches, players, and fans behavior this spring. It's almost as if the local AAU management set forth some sort of POE's for the teams. Of course it probably helps that our local AAU boss is Boo Williams, so edicts coming down from him carry considerable weight.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Once again, the reason the term "lady" or "act like a lady" offends someone because it puts women in a box of behavior that is seen as traditional or subservient to men. Now if you do not believe me, say that around some very educated women or women that have careers and you might see what I mean.

I did...I asked my wife and sister-in-law...wife has her Master's Degree and is a teacher (that would be a career) and sis-in-law has her Doctorate and is a VP of Admissions and Records at a Division II University in Seattle (that would be a career also)...they both thought that was one of the stupidest things they had ever heard...they both said "ladies" is a term of respect and shows gentelmanly behavior from the man...

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

...they both thought that was one of the stupidest things they had ever heard...they both said "ladies" is a term of respect and shows gentelmanly behavior from the man...

Actually what he asked was "Would either of you ladies kindly get up off your cute little bottom and get me a friggin' beer?!"

[coachgbert]

I did respond as a "lady" since I am one (at least I hope that's generally accepted by most that know me). I also am educated (master's degree), hold a full time professional position and coach young women on how to play basketball and behave in society as both women and players. I am not offended by the term lady, but then I grew up with parental orders to "act like a lady", "sit like a lady", "behave like a lady", etc. There is no excuse for the behavior of out of control players, fans and coaches. This past weekend I noted players on opposing teams that made comments to me as I coached my players. They made comments to the officials and to the fans in the stands. We also had our very first intentional foul called on an opposing team when she knocked my airborn shooter into the wall. Parents of the player that committed the foul were outraged that he would stop play to lecture both teams on playing aggressive, but playing fair and so no one gets injured.

Even though it's not up to the officials to teach manners, respect and sportsmanship, this one did a nice job of reinforcing rules. We all know that manners and respect are just rules of conduct that are learned. Officiating and teaching all in one game, he was a very good official.

Coach Gbert

[Ref_ Fred]

and?

What happened?

Like most of you we had a group of officials doing various games. when we all got done we walked out as a group and some of the veteran officials warned him that he best leave or we would call the police have place a complaint and possibly having him arrested. he did leave and nothing happened. I would have explained more if it had gotten out of control.

[coachgbert]

Originally Posted by Ref_ Fred

Like most of you we had a group of officials doing various games. when we all got done we walked out as a group and some of the veteran officials warned him that he best leave or we would call the police have place a complaint and possibly having him arrested. he did leave and nothing happened. I would have explained more if it had gotten out of control.

Wow, maybe you were at my game! One of the dad's on the opposing team went crackers and pretty much the same thing happened after the game.

Coach Gbert

[Jurassic Referee]

I think that there's people out there that make a career out of being offended. Aamof, they're not happy unless they can find a reason to be offended.

'Nuff said.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I think that there's people out there that make a career out of being offended. Aamof, they're not happy unless they can find a reason to be offended.

'Nuff said.

I could see how a single, random person within a significantly large population could truly believe that we still live in 15th century Europe, that she is actually a Lady and feel genuinely oppressed. She probably gets so down about it that she goes home and has some peasants tortured just to cheer herself up.

While I generally try to see things from both points of view, even if I don't accept one or both as valid, this one is just silly. I agree, JR, you have to be looking for a way to be offended in this case. And frankly, if I were looking for a way to be offended, I'd feel pretty lame about picking this one. If I couldn't do any better, I'd hang my head in shame.

[Corndog89]

As officials, we are authority figures. As such, our credibility, in large part, depends on treating everyone the same. Therefore, IMO, it is incumbent we don't do or say anything that may offend anyone, even if we do it innocently. Why do we stay calm and rational when dealing with an angry coach, an irate parent, or a petulant player? Because we have to always be in control and not ever be seen as playing favorites. EVER! But if we refer to players as "ladies" or "gentlemen", we may be doing just that, even if unconsciously or inadvertantly.

I love the poll Larry S did...84 out of 84 answers thought the issue was silly. But the 85th responder may very well be the one who is genuinely offended by the term "ladies". And if so, then odds are that #85 will be be a player/coach/parent in my next game and bring me grief when I unwittingly use the term "ladies". When someone is zealous about something, even something so seemingly innocuous as the term "ladies", and you offend their sense of righteousness, then you will never regain your moral authority in their eyes, to include the authority to officiate their game. Pretty sad when you think about it. Therefore, I do my best to avoid any terminology that may be construed as offensive and keep things as simple and straightforward as possible. Just good common sense.

And I liked what a couple other people said about officials setting the tenor of good sportsmanship, civility, and personal responsibility...we should and usually do. But I think we do it with our demeanor, sense of fair play, control of our emotions, and passion for the game we love. I don't have to call men/boys "gentlemen" or women/girls "ladies" to accomplish that.

One guy's opinions....