"Honey Bunny"

[Ref_ Fred]

but I sometimes wonder if anyone is actually teaching our young women in sports what it means to be a "lady". Manners, respect, honesty and sportsmanship seem to be on the lower end of the ladder regarding sports a lot of the time.Coach Gbert

.


Coach,

It is not the responsibility of the official to teach these young ladies Manners, respect, honesty and sportsmanship. This should have taken place in their up bringing. we the official administer the rules of the sport/game. I have two high school daughters that play basketball. If see either one of them not be respectful to the officials, player, coaches and fans. I personnally bench them. As a parent..

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by Ref_ Fred

It is not the responsibility of the official to teach these young ladies Manners, respect, honesty and sportsmanship. This should have taken place in their up bringing.

Fred, I don't think the coach was suggesting that the officials are supposed to teach those things. He was merely commenting on the fact that some people are offended by their girls being called ladies, while not being bothered at all that they are not, in fact, ladies.

[coachgbert]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Fred, I don't think the coach was suggesting that the officials are supposed to teach those things. He was merely commenting on the fact that some people are offended by their girls being called ladies, while not being bothered at all that they are not, in fact, ladies.

Yes, that's what I was trying to convey. I apologize if there was a misunderstanding. I just came from a tournament where rudeness amongst players, parents, fans and coaches was rampant. I was lamenting the fact that it seems to be a fashion in AAU to NOT act like ladies, all in the name of "competition". I witnessed some ugly scenes, both on and off the court. While we were never part of it, I'm sorry my 8th grade young ladies had to see it.

Coach Gbert

[Junker]

Maybe we should go with X's and Y's? I'm a ladies and gentlemen person. I see no problem with it.

[ChuckElias]

You mean, instead of "ladies and gentlemen", we say "XX's and XY's"? I'm offended!!

[JRutledge]

Once again, the reason the term "lady" or "act like a lady" offends someone because it puts women in a box of behavior that is seen as traditional or subservient to men. Now if you do not believe me, say that around some very educated women or women that have careers and you might see what I mean. Also this does not offend everyone nor should it. I just find it funny that a bunch of men want to talk about what is not offensive to anyone when the term is not about them or their role in society. Also this point is made to educate those that might be confronted with someone that gets upset about this issue. You have the right to do whatever you like, but if you are an official that is seen as "offensive" and continue to use those terms, you might have to deal with some consequences you are not willing to deal with. That is why the person that raised this issue said that he avoids the term all together. This also plays differently in different parts of the country and with people different social economic status. I cannot behave the same way in Naperville as I would when I am on the Westside of Chicago. Not all language is going to be seen as appropriate or offensive to everyone nor will you have to deal with the same consequences for using certain language in different places.

Peace

[Ref_ Fred]

Fred, I don't think the coach was suggesting that the officials are supposed to teach those things. He was merely commenting on the fact that some people are offended by their girls being called ladies, while not being bothered at all that they are not, in fact, ladies.

Sorry for miss-reading your thoughts. thanks for the clearification.

As for AAU tournament, it's getting ugly. The rudness by the Coaches, Fans and of course it trickles right down to the players. They seem to see the adults do and get away with it, so why not us kids? I actually did a tournament in NO Va a month ago and had a parent ejected from the gymnasium for mis conduct. I know we need to have our focus on the game and not the stands, but this gentleman( I'm being kind) was so loud and out of control with his language. I stopped the game cold, alert security to have him removed. Believe it or not He was waiting for me to walk out of the gym to confront me on it. This is why we lack the respect of the players. It come from the parents down....

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Ref_ Fred

Believe it or not He was waiting for me to walk out of the gym to confront me on it.

...and?

What happened?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Ref_ Fred

Sorry for miss-reading your thoughts. thanks for the clearification.

As for AAU tournament, it's getting ugly. The rudness by the Coaches, Fans and of course it trickles right down to the players. They seem to see the adults do and get away with it, so why not us kids? I actually did a tournament in NO Va a month ago and had a parent ejected from the gymnasium for mis conduct. I know we need to have our focus on the game and not the stands, but this gentleman( I'm being kind) was so loud and out of control with his language. I stopped the game cold, alert security to have him removed. Believe it or not He was waiting for me to walk out of the gym to confront me on it. This is why we lack the respect of the players. It come from the parents down....

Sounds like your AAU administrators up that way need to tighten things up. I'm down in Southeastern VA and I have noticed a considerable improvement in coaches, players, and fans behavior this spring. It's almost as if the local AAU management set forth some sort of POE's for the teams. Of course it probably helps that our local AAU boss is Boo Williams, so edicts coming down from him carry considerable weight.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Once again, the reason the term "lady" or "act like a lady" offends someone because it puts women in a box of behavior that is seen as traditional or subservient to men. Now if you do not believe me, say that around some very educated women or women that have careers and you might see what I mean.

I did...I asked my wife and sister-in-law...wife has her Master's Degree and is a teacher (that would be a career) and sis-in-law has her Doctorate and is a VP of Admissions and Records at a Division II University in Seattle (that would be a career also)...they both thought that was one of the stupidest things they had ever heard...they both said "ladies" is a term of respect and shows gentelmanly behavior from the man...

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

...they both thought that was one of the stupidest things they had ever heard...they both said "ladies" is a term of respect and shows gentelmanly behavior from the man...

Actually what he asked was "Would either of you ladies kindly get up off your cute little bottom and get me a friggin' beer?!"

[coachgbert]

I did respond as a "lady" since I am one (at least I hope that's generally accepted by most that know me). I also am educated (master's degree), hold a full time professional position and coach young women on how to play basketball and behave in society as both women and players. I am not offended by the term lady, but then I grew up with parental orders to "act like a lady", "sit like a lady", "behave like a lady", etc. There is no excuse for the behavior of out of control players, fans and coaches. This past weekend I noted players on opposing teams that made comments to me as I coached my players. They made comments to the officials and to the fans in the stands. We also had our very first intentional foul called on an opposing team when she knocked my airborn shooter into the wall. Parents of the player that committed the foul were outraged that he would stop play to lecture both teams on playing aggressive, but playing fair and so no one gets injured.

Even though it's not up to the officials to teach manners, respect and sportsmanship, this one did a nice job of reinforcing rules. We all know that manners and respect are just rules of conduct that are learned. Officiating and teaching all in one game, he was a very good official.

Coach Gbert

[Jurassic Referee]

I think that there's people out there that make a career out of being offended. Aamof, they're not happy unless they can find a reason to be offended.

'Nuff said.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I did...I asked my wife and sister-in-law...wife has her Master's Degree and is a teacher (that would be a career) and sis-in-law has her Doctorate and is a VP of Admissions and Records at a Division II University in Seattle (that would be a career also)...they both thought that was one of the stupidest things they had ever heard...they both said "ladies" is a term of respect and shows gentelmanly behavior from the man...

I have had this conversation with my Mom who is a PhD in Sociology (retiring after 30 years at one University in June) who attended the University of Michigan, University of Wisconsin at Madison (Masters Degree) and got her undergrad at FAMU (Newsweek called the best University in the country). She also for years has taught classes like “Gender Roles” and “The Black Family” and these issues are discussed an written about in much greater detail. Also as part of her job she has sat on the board of many organizations that are in her field that deal with Sociology and other teaching organizations that involved people from all over the country and at some of the most prestigious Universities in the country. This background has exposed me to attending lectures, conferences or just talking to people that have expertise in the role of Gender in America and how things have chanced with expectations, language, social roles and sexuality concerns over the last 50 to 60 years alone. This is not the first time I have ever had a conversation with someone about this issue or read about this and many issues of gender and social-economic status. This is why I gave the explanation in the first place.

Once again we are not going to resolve this issue on a discussion board or any forum like this. Just thought there needed to be some balance to this discussion as what why things are the way they are. I personally do not care either way what you say or how you say it to the people in your life. Just know that someone that you might not know might have issues with the term and this might be unexpected if put your head in the sand.

Peace

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have had this conversation with my Mom who is a PhD in Sociology (retiring after 30 years at one University in June) who attended the University of Michigan, University of Wisconsin at Madison (Masters Degree) and got her undergrad at FAMU (Newsweek called the best University in the country). She also for years has taught classes like “Gender Roles” and “The Black Family” and these issues are discussed an written about in much greater detail. Also as part of her job she has sat on the board of many organizations that are in her field that deal with Sociology and other teaching organizations that involved people from all over the country and at some of the most prestigious Universities in the country. This background has exposed me to attending lectures, conferences or just talking to people that have expertise in the role of Gender in America and how things have chanced with expectations, language, social roles and sexuality concerns over the last 50 to 60 years alone. This is not the first time I have ever had a conversation with someone about this issue or read about this and many issues of gender and social-economic status. This is why I gave the explanation in the first place.

Once again we are not going to resolve this issue on a discussion board or any forum like this. Just thought there needed to be some balance to this discussion as what why things are the way they are. I personally do not care either way what you say or how you say it to the people in your life. Just know that someone that you might not know might have issues with the term and this might be unexpected if put your head in the sand.

Peace

Rut:

With all due respect to your mother, saying that referring to a female, no matter what her age, as a lady is being derogatory to the female is policitally correct horse manure. Conducting oneself on the playing fields or in the work place as a gentleman or a lady has nothing to do with putting a person down, it has to do with displaying good sportsmanship and good manners, other words, acting like civilized human beings. Today's society at all levels, talk radio and politics, are good examples where good manners are sorely missing.

MTD, Sr.