you make the call video

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by canuckrefguy

Huh?

Since when is a defender allowed to move sideways?

Whenever you have block/charge, ask yourself "what did the defender do wrong?" - after all, you are supposed to be reffing the defense. If your answer is "nothing", call charge. If your answer contains the words "moves sideways", it's a block.

Having said all this, I think this is one of those calls where you could probably call charge and never get any heat for it. It'd be the wrong call, but you could get away with it.

What does the word lateral mean?

[crazy voyager]

move laterally=move sideways

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by canuckrefguy

Since when is a defender allowed to move sideways?

Since approximately forever.

The defense is allowed to move to maintain LGP. The defense is not allowed to move "toward" the offense. If the defense moves sideways and the contact is on the torso, it's (generally) a PC foul.

[FishinRef]

I have a block - Good call.

Here is how it stacks up so far -

BLOCK = 11 GUYS CALL IT A BLOCK
CHARGE = 4 GUYS CALL IT A CHARGE

The Grand Jury in this case says it's a block so far.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

It's a term some of my NCAA-level buddies use when discussing PC/Block plays. Did the secondary (or help defender or whatever term anyone wants to use) defender establish LGP prior to collision/contact? Usually plays involving penetration to the basket where primary defender gets beat and secondary defender in paint slides over to help. They discuss 'L' picking up secondary defender and having a whistle on those types of crashes. IMO this block/charge video clip is a perfect example. The 'C' has eyes on the ball-handler and the defender trailing him. 'L' was in position to referee the defense, in this case the secondary defender.

Sorry badnews, with respect to applying the rule primary or secondary have no meaning. We can talk about who has responsibility for each, but under ncaa mens rules there's no difference in how LGP is obtained or how the call is made.

I'll vote block on this one btw. Seems B1 moved under A1 while he was in the air.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Sorry badnews, with respect to applying the rule primary or secondary have no meaning. We can talk about who has responsibility for each, but under ncaa mens rules there's no difference in how LGP is obtained or how the call is made.

I'll vote block on this one btw. Seems B1 moved under A1 while he was in the air.

I'm not saying there is a difference, just answering JR's question...my original post said the secondary defender never established LGP so I had him for a block.

[All_Heart]

Interestingly no one mentioned that the player traveled before the play. The best call would have been a travel and then you wouldn't have to make a decision on this tough Block/Charge.

Of course in practice most officials (including myself) don't call this travel. It is the same type of travel that occurs before a lot of layups.

Regarding the Block/Charge I think it is a great example that not all plays are black and white. From different angles of the court this play looks a lot different. If I was officiating this play LIVE then I would probably call a block. It appears that the player is still moving into the path of the offensive player from the side. I'm also more inclined to call this a block because the defensive player sells the PC. It is a pet peeve of mine that players try to draw charges instead of playing good defense. I think that you should play good defense and if the offensive player initiates enough contact to displace you then it should be a PC. So again I'm pretty sure that during live action and while reffing the defense that I would call a block.

However, with the help of slow motion this looks like a PC because if you pause the video right before contact the defender has obtained and maintained LGP before the offensive player becomes an airborne shooter and the contact is partially in the torso area (upper left chest & shoulder)

So how do you like my answer: Tape = PC and Live = Block.

[jritchie]

i think in slow mo you can tell the player on d stuck his left shoulder up in the air to try and draw the charge so that is why i would call a block on him...Block live and block in slow mo

[tjones1]

This is a perfect thread to use the new feature of a poll. Problem is, I haven't figured out how to add it into a thread yet.

[crazy voyager]

Originally Posted by tjones1

This is a perfect thread to use the new feature of a poll. Problem is, I haven't figured out how to add it into a thread yet.

the person who started the thread can edit his first post in order to add a poll (I think it works that way anyway)

[mplagrow]

I got a block too. Too much lateral movement to get into the path of the driving player. I didn't mind the sell either.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I'm not saying there is a difference, just answering JR's question...my original post said the secondary defender never established LGP so I had him for a block.

OK. We agree, I don't think he had lgp either.

[All_Heart]

Originally Posted by tjones1

This is a perfect thread to use the new feature of a poll. Problem is, I haven't figured out how to add it into a thread yet.

Okay, here is the poll: Post: you make the call video

[crazy voyager]

Originally Posted by mplagrow

I got a block too. Too much lateral movement to get into the path of the driving player. I didn't mind the sell either.

But you're allowed to move unless it's forward (And I'm quite certain the defender didn't move forward), so why the block?

[zebraman]

Tough play for sure. I've got a block. The defender initiated the contact when he leaned his shoulder into the offensive player who was trying to go around him. The ref would have had a better angle had he widened out on the drive instead of seeing it from the close-down position.

I could do without the official doing the "kangaroo hop" sell.

Z