Requst for your help please

[rainmaker]

Almost forgot...

The way to "help" the parents "forget" to keep score, is to have them keep track of something else, such as rebounds, "good shots" (that should have gone in), assists, good passes, good catches, anything like that. If a parent is keeping track of these things to see which team wins, they'll still have to be noticing the good things the other team does in order to keep score. But if you change the item every week, they won't generally be adept enough to keep track, and they'll lose track of the "score".

This strategy also helps the kids see value in other skills besides shooting, and gives them a chance to focus on some other items besides points and shots. If you announce ahead of time what the item will be, "this coming Saturday will be assist day", they can work on it in practice, too.

[Time2Ref]

I'm new, take what makes sense, ignore the rest.

I think you are doing a great service to your community. As you know, to do it right will take a LOT of work on your part.

I am trying to become a certified official. I am currently a referee for children. I have a limited knowledge of what you are trying to do. That being said, here are some things to consider:

Just as you are trying to develop good basketball players of children, so too can you help to develop good referees from rookies. Contact the local "association" (start NFHS and work your way down to your state, then to your local association) Most should have mentoring programs. Any new ref will value getting the experience "on the floor".

Have a grading session. Evaluate the players' talents. YOU PICK THE TEAMS AND MAKE THEM AS FAIR AS YOU CAN!

Get the NFHS rule book and learn the rules. (Get books for each coach and referee. (Decide what rule changes you would like for your kids)

Don't forget that you need scorekeepers and timers (don't try to get volunteers from the audience each game)

Schedule your games the same night each week. Pay them a FAIR price to ref a couple of games that night. The asscociation can advise you as to what is fair. (that way they can make a commitment and it allows them time to schedule their time)

Have a meeting at the beginning of the season. This will include coaches, referees, and yourself. Discuss rule changes. Listen to their input. Agree on what rule changes will be observed. Stress SPORTSMANSHIP. Remind everyone, the goal is to develop skills and sportsmanship.

The important thing is the children. Coaches and Referees are there for the Kids. Nobody goes to the game to see the Ref. Nobody goes to the game to see the Coach. If your coaches and refs can't sign on to this philosophy, get new ones.

Develop a plan to increase knowledge and "calls" as the season progresses. For example, the first week, coaches will concentrate on the basics, like inbounding the ball, dribbling, proper defense(no contact), foul shooting (without lane violations). Refs will concentrate on things like traveling, proper inbounds (our kids can't cross the opponets foul line until the ball is inbounded, sort of "free ins"), and yes fouls.

The coaches job is to teach the basics and good sportsmanship. The kids will learn. BUT, the message does not sink in until they make the mistake on the floor and the whistle blows. If the ref doesn't call a foul, they won't learn not to foul, no matter what the coach does.

The kids will learn mostly from their coaches' EXAMPLE. If the coach is a good sport, the kids will learn to be a good sport.

The coaches and the refs MUST WORK TOGETHER. They are on the same team. The kids are the stars.

And remember (and remind the coaches and refs) NO matter what you do, you can't teach these kids EVERYTHING in one season. So decide what you will teach them this year, and make sure the coaches and refs work together to teach them those things.

Hope this helps.

[SmokeEater]

Coach, we run a very similar program here in Winnipeg Manitoba, that has been very successful. It is called Winnipeg Minor Basketball Association, it has a website. I am not sure if I am allowed to post it here so if you take the first letters of the name and add a .ca at the end you will get there. The coordinator of the league is Adam Wedlake, I am sure if you contacted him for some ideas he could help you out.

On a side note, in this league we have a Gym Supervisor that is to oversee the running of the games. they ensure the referees are doing the job and coaches and fans stay in line. It takes away some of the fees from the refs as the fee is split 3 ways but it does help.

Smoke

[JCrow]

CoachTex,

I've been involved in a similar program for about 13 years.

1. IMO, the 5-6 Grade Level is about where competitive basketball should begin. Below that it's Instructional with minimal emphasis on Winning & Losing or keeping score.

2. You need people that know the Rules to provide good instruction in any Youth Level. Our Y Program sent a number of volunteers to Ref Schools over the years and these people provide the volunteer officationg up to the 9-12 Grade Level where we go to IABBO Refs.

Some of the IABBO Refs we get are very good, most are good and a few are awful. The kids' safety is the important thing. Fouls must be called to prevent the game from turning into a slugfest.

This Year, we included a Handout for Coaches to educate them about 15 basic NHFS basketball rules. In the Rules for each Level, I preface them by saying that the Rules of the NFHS apply with the following exceptions.....pressing, double-teams, zone restrictions, etc.

Happy to send you our Rules and Handout by separate e-mail if it helps. Anytime.

John

[CoachTex]

nm

[Edited by CoachTex on Feb 3rd, 2006 at 06:39 PM]

[stmaryrams]

I do some games for a local CYO league which does have differing rules based on grade.

We have a meeting to go over the league specific rules each year. All officials who want to work these games must attend.

This year they tried to keep each official in no more than two groups of rule sets so that one doesn't get confused about which set you are calling.

We each get a copy of the league rules just like the coaches. At the league coaches meeting, there is an official who covers the rules with coaches.

Last week I had a technical foul on a 4th grader for slamming the ball following my partner call him for a violation. The coach says as I report it to "Not take this so seriously". I replied " better to learn sportmanship now than 5 years from now"

[JCrow]

Tex,

I sent you our Rules. Now, go over to the Post on "Favorite Referees" and vote for me. Currently, Rut and I are running in a close 0-0 tie.

Crow

[Rich]

Originally posted by rainmaker
Two ways you might motivate "refs" to work harder at doing it the way you want:

1. They can't get the higher level games, until they're good at 3rd grade.

2. There's always a 3rd grade game included in their set of games, and they get no check if they don't do a good job.

Sheez, NO ONE around here gets $25 bucks a game for third grade!! If you're paying that much, they should be making you coffee, too!

You might think about having a few folks who are really committed to the 3rd and 4th grade, and only do that. I'd do this myself, if you presented the case to me. One thing that's hard for any ref, but especially inexperienced ones, is switching from ruleset to ruleset. I decided not to do a couple of rec leagues this year, cuz it was so hard to remember to watch for the zone defense, and call it. I would just get that into my mind, and then I'm back to varsity NFHS on weeknights, and I totally forget the zone thing by the next Saturday. Someone who did only the lowest levels would be more attuned to it.

Oh, yeah. Being forced to work a 3rd grade game is going to motivate me.

While we have our share of problems here, I'm soooooo happy I'm not forced to work games I don't want to work.

[JCrow]

Mr. Fronheiser,

It's perfectly understandable that you want to stick to the 2nd Grade games before moving up too quickly. There's no shame in that.

John

[Rich]

Originally posted by JCrow
Mr. Fronheiser,

It's perfectly understandable that you want to stick to the 2nd Grade games before moving up too quickly. There's no shame in that.

John

And thank you for my laugh of the day.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Oh, yeah. Being forced to work a 3rd grade game is going to motivate me.

While we have our share of problems here, I'm soooooo happy I'm not forced to work games I don't want to work.

Rich --

I thought he was talking about high school age refs here, but looking back, I see I misunderstood. You're right that asking NFHS refs to do this could be tricky. I think for teenagers it would be a great introduction to reffing. Pay them $10 per game, and pay a "trainer" to watch and coach (coach the refs) for the first couple or three games. The rec league I work for on the weekends does this and it works out very well.

[JCrow]

Favorite Ref Tally 1:26 pm

Rainmaker - 0
JRutledge - 0
Rich Fronheiser - 0
JCrow - 0
DanRef -0
Fonzy07 - 0
JurassicRef - O
BobJenkins - Recused himself due to Off Topic subject matter.

Now, I know how Dick Nixon felt in the 1960 Race....

[ATXCoach]

CoachTex,

I ran the programs at a youth organization for a few years myself. I found that the best refs were refs that were always there. I was lucky because I'm in Austin and had some UT frat boys that stayed with us for about 3 years. Once they graduated, I too went the route of the local high school refs.

The problem I found was that these refs never quite understood the "league" rules. I couldn't have a ref's meeting because I didn't know who was reffing in a given week, since all I had was a contact with the local chapter assignor. I fielded many complaints from it.

My suggestion is that you find a core group of officials to call the younger groups that know the coaches and kids. Once your league begins to play "real" basketball, then it's easier to use the local chapter officials who can just call what they see.

Also, I always used high school or young college kids to ref anything up to 3rd grade. If a coach got out of line, it was my job to make sure it didn't happen again. If it did, bye bye coach - two year ban from coaching the league. The threat of the embarrasment involved in that punishment is enough to keep their mouths shut. Also, we had a zero tolerance rule and informed the coached of it at the coach's meeting. The coaches got their only warning before the season even started.

One last thing to remember, and some on here may disagree, but reffing rec league basketball isn't about knowing the finer points of the rule book discussed on many a thread in here . . . it's about safety and flow. Knowing when a travel shouldn't be called or what kid can take a little more contact and still continue or what kid is so clumsy that if you don't blow the whistle early s/he is gonna lay someone out or what kid hasn't scored all year and needs a phantom foul to get a chance on the free throw line.

Just some thoughts from someone once in your position.

[JCrow]

ATX,

Bullseye!

(You got my Vote.)

[CoachTex]

Thanks everyone! Great advice. I really appreciate it.