"Referee the Defense" tips/advice?

[Dave Dow]

Some of the best action is off ball.

[Chess Ref]

I agree with Dave, some of the best stuff is off-ball. Also I find that I make some of my most,relaxed and correct calls off ball. I think it is because no one in the gym is watching " off-ball" except me. LOL

[tomegun]

Not my terminology, I got it from someone who is far better than me and doing this thing the right way, therefore I will listen to what he has to say. Actually, it is a wonderful thing to know who knows what they are doing and who should be listened to.
I'm not in a wad, I just need to keep reminding myself that some officials already have this things whipped. I guess they got it all figured out while and officiating and listening to their "veteran" partner during their class A boys/girls varsity/jv game. Thankfully I try not to be this way and I learn from those I work with in addition to the wise typed words of those on this board that have obviously done what they are talking about. I would mention names of those posters but there are too many and I don't want to leave anyone out.
Terminology changes because - mysteriously to some on this board - the philosophy of instructors (big time officials) change. It boggles the mind how someone can learn at a camp or other setting when being so against changing a mindset.
I have asked this before, someone tell me a short/accurate new term to describe what I do when I'm looking at two players (some would say a matchup ) and I will consider using it.
Misguided philosophy, which is how we dictate action to me, will result in the wrong action. Instead of saying something and saying what you really mean, I would rather say something that says what I mean on its own. Then, I put that philosophy into action. In the beginning stages we take this philosophy and self-talk our way through situations untill they become automatic. During those early stages we are talking defense, defense, defense and miss other things (we all did/do it). I think it eases the growing pains to think matchup until a point where you go to defense, just my thought process.
Many times officials aren't even watching the defense. Try this sequence, whistle/color/number all in a rythm. Many officials can do whistle/pause/color/number and that says more about how many things we do as officials in a short time. Watching the defense can remove the pause and really communicate confidence in your calls. When the announcer is announcing your call before you even report to the table, you know you are on point.

I don't mean to offend anyone or start and argument. I just have a passion about the game. I think brianp, nevada and chuck probably know I have somewhat of a sharp intensity that is not meant to offend anyone.

I have to get on the road now and put this into action! Thank goodness I don't have to drive alone tonight. I'm catching some shut eye in the back seat.

[rockyroad]

Ok...a question for tomegun: How do you know when there is a "match-up" to watch? I would bet it doesn't have anything to do with where an offensive player is standing...example: offensive player standing at head of key, without the ball, no defender within 10 feet - is that your match-up? It becomes a "match-up" when a defensive player starts making it competitive...and how do we know when that happens? Because we referee the defense and see that match-up start...like I said, "tomato" and "tuhmato" (just for you, Chuck...

And you really have no clue who on this board has done what, so throwing out comments like "your A level varsity/jv" labels really doesn't help anything...many of us on this board have "learned from the best" and continue to do so...the mentor you got "ref the match-up" from took it right out of the NCAA manual, as did the person who posted "Ref the defense, think like the offense"...so one thing from the manual is better than another?

Anyway, hope you had a nice nap on the drive and the game went well...

[IREFU2]

Originally posted by rockyroad
Ok...a question for tomegun: How do you know when there is a "match-up" to watch? I would bet it doesn't have anything to do with where an offensive player is standing...example: offensive player standing at head of key, without the ball, no defender within 10 feet - is that your match-up? It becomes a "match-up" when a defensive player starts making it competitive...and how do we know when that happens? Because we referee the defense and see that match-up start...like I said, "tomato" and "tuhmato" (just for you, Chuck...

And you really have no clue who on this board has done what, so throwing out comments like "your A level varsity/jv" labels really doesn't help anything...many of us on this board have "learned from the best" and continue to do so...the mentor you got "ref the match-up" from took it right out of the NCAA manual, as did the person who posted "Ref the defense, think like the offense"...so one thing from the manual is better than another?

Anyway, hope you had a nice nap on the drive and the game went well...

Hey Rock -

In a nutshell, all of the camps that I have been to have stressed refereeing the defense. It does a couple of things for me:

1. It keeps me from ball watching
2. It helps me get the correct call on the PC or B/C
3. It also helps with the Post play if you are in the lead
4. It has aided me in deciding on double fouls and illegal screens.

This is just a few instances. Off ball, no question, referee the defense.

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by IREFU2



Hey Rock -

In a nutshell, all of the camps that I have been to have stressed refereeing the defense. It does a couple of things for me:

1. It keeps me from ball watching
2. It helps me get the correct call on the PC or B/C
3. It also helps with the Post play if you are in the lead
4. It has aided me in deciding on double fouls and illegal screens.

This is just a few instances. Off ball, no question, referee the defense.

I agree...the point I was trying to make is that you, I, and tomegun are really saying the same thing...

[IREFU2]

Originally posted by rockyroad

I agree...the point I was trying to make is that you, I, and tomegun are really saying the same thing...

Point taken.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by rockyroad

Huk't on foniks, baby...works every time!

[rainmaker]

Tommy --

I won't embarass Rocky by telling you how high he's worked, but I'd bet a fairly large amount of money it's higher than you. I'm not saying that to play oneupsmanship, but just to say that you can't know from your computer in DC where others have been, or who they're working with. You may be very good, and very right, and Rocky may also be the same. Ya gotta admit, his description of finding the match-up is very helpful.

[tomegun]

Originally posted by rainmaker
Tommy --

I won't embarass Rocky by telling you how high he's worked, but I'd bet a fairly large amount of money it's higher than you. I'm not saying that to play oneupsmanship, but just to say that you can't know from your computer in DC where others have been, or who they're working with. You may be very good, and very right, and Rocky may also be the same. Ya gotta admit, his description of finding the match-up is very helpful.

I would be interested to know how high that level is. Not to compare, he is just here often and I don't have anything against anyone doing well in this business. More importantly, someone can't tell how good someone is on a computer, and I would go with the home team during an unbiased evaluation. Remember, the best don't always make it to the big time and those that are big time aren't always the best. I either get lucky everyday, or there is some skilled involved. EDIT - I just realized Rockyroad is on the women's side. A lot of differences exist... uh, yeah. All comparisons would be a big N/A.

Back on point. Yes, his description of finding the matchup is good, but that is part of my point. We find the matchup and we referee the matchup. It is just that simple and I'm still waiting for someone to post otherwise. I'm still assuming we still catch violations and other things the offensive player does, right? So you have offensive player and defensive player, sounds like a matchup to me. Now, when a drive takes place, sure I referee the defense. I'm not disagreeing with refereeing the defense, I'm just saying there is more involved than that. I've also said this - without a contradicting post - refereeing the defense fits inside of refereeing the matchup, but refereeing the matchup does not fit inside of refereeing the defense. If the terms were a different way of saying the same thing, I don't think that would be the case.

The ability to laugh at situations in life is priceless!

[Edited by tomegun on Jan 19th, 2006 at 02:53 AM]

[rockyroad]

OK...I'll try one more time. Now I know I'm just a lowly Women's side ref, but here's the deal: "Ref the defense" is the broad, over-all picture..."ref the match-up" is the smaller brushstrokes that make up the picture...or here's another one: "ref the match-ups" is the individual puzzle pieces in our little jigsaw, while "ref the defense" is the picture on the box that we look at to know what we are putting together.

And as far as what levels I work - who cares?? What difference does it make. Some of the best posters on this board don't work anything above HS ball...some of the worst do work higher. Who cares? The only problem is when someone throws out another's opinions because they only work at this level or that level...

[OklahomaRef]

When I am the L official, or even the T when ball goes low in opposite corner, I just set my focus on my area, I watch the ball with my peripheral vision. I also talk to players and let them know (get out of lane, quit pushing) I have found that this makes it easier to focus on my "area"

[tomegun]

Originally posted by rockyroad
OK...I'll try one more time. Now I know I'm just a lowly Women's side ref, but here's the deal: "Ref the defense" is the broad, over-all picture..."ref the match-up" is the smaller brushstrokes that make up the picture...or here's another one: "ref the match-ups" is the individual puzzle pieces in our little jigsaw, while "ref the defense" is the picture on the box that we look at to know what we are putting together.

And as far as what levels I work - who cares?? What difference does it make. Some of the best posters on this board don't work anything above HS ball...some of the worst do work higher. Who cares? The only problem is when someone throws out another's opinions because they only work at this level or that level...

I will try one more time too. I think totally opposite of you - "ref the defense" is the small brushstroke and "ref the match-up" is the larger picture. Are you saying that within "ref the defense" you have the match-up? The is contrary to what really takes place since "ref the defense" is a PART of refereeing the match-up. Can you explain further how "ref the match-up" is only part of "ref the defense?" I find it self explanatory how, while refereeing the match-up part of THAT big picture would be to ref the defense. Right now, it isn't making sense the other way around.

Since I started the part about level worked, I will apoligize for making a vague/general statement without clarification. My primary reason for making my comment wasn't to down anyone, it was directed at the fact that there are posters who spew fountains of knowledge and follow it up by literally saying they gather this from very little actual experience. It often prompts a - wince - because a lot of people have actually been through several games to come on here and are told how to handle a situation by someone who hasn't experienced enough. I'm not talking about a particular situation with me, I see this happen often. I agree it doesn't take a D1 schedule to have knowledge, it also doesn't take a post count of 2000+. There are some people who seem to know so much; I would pay the price of admission to see them get from behind the computer and blow the whistle (not directed at anyone...right now ).

[rockyroad]

Ok, so when there is no match-up (like I asked in an earlier post) what do you do? I find the defensive players in my area and watch them, because they will be the ones to create the match-up that I then focus on...when there is no longer a match-up, I go find the defenders in my area again until they create another match-up at which time I will ref that match-up until...oh good grief...betcha a hundred gazillion dollars that you and I referee the exact same way and call a very similiar game and are both just arrogant enough to think our way is right and the other's guy's isn't...

Kinda reminds me of Jurassic...

[tomegun]

Originally posted by rockyroad
Ok, so when there is no match-up (like I asked in an earlier post) what do you do? I find the defensive players in my area and watch them, because they will be the ones to create the match-up that I then focus on...when there is no longer a match-up, I go find the defenders in my area again until they create another match-up at which time I will ref that match-up until...oh good grief...betcha a hundred gazillion dollars that you and I referee the exact same way and call a very similiar game and are both just arrogant enough to think our way is right and the other's guy's isn't...

Kinda reminds me of Jurassic...

Probably. I love to make off-ball calls. What you are saying makes perfect sense to me. I'm afraid that a younger official will take the term "ref the defense" to mean they should focus on the defense only (or end up getting sort of tunnel vision) during a match-up. That is the whole purpose of my debate. I agree with your post above.