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Old Thu Jan 12, 2006, 10:29am
Huck Finn
 
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What do you guys want to happen when you give a coach a T? Do you want your partners to talk to them or tell them what they did to get the T? Do you want to tell them? Do you stay table side or go across? This is something that seems simple at first (to some people anyway) but can be an issue.

I had a situation in a game the other night and I'm wondering how people on this board feel about this. I will tell my story when I come back from beating my buddy in racquetball!
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Old Thu Jan 12, 2006, 10:36am
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Quote:
Originally posted by tomegun
What do you guys want to happen when you give a coach a T? Do you want your partners to talk to them or tell them what they did to get the T? Do you want to tell them? Do you stay table side or go across? This is something that seems simple at first (to some people anyway) but can be an issue.

I had a situation in a game the other night and I'm wondering how people on this board feel about this. I will tell my story when I come back from beating my buddy in racquetball!
IMO every coach that I have ever T'ed up didnt need an explanation. They know why they were hit. If it were a direct comment made to you and only you and you turn and "tweet" T on the coach. Your partners probably have no idea why you just gave a T. However, two people do 1)you 2)coach...no need to explain.

However, if it's a T on a player or maybe the bench, I would then explain to the the coach why I am assesing a Technical Foul to #5 or bench. Good coaches want to know what #5 did to get a T and the good one will take extra measures to make sure it doesnt happen again.
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Old Thu Jan 12, 2006, 10:42am
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We usually cover this in the pregame and it usually what happens is the official that calls the technical will administer the free throws. If this puts that official next to the bench for the throw-in, we will switch and he will also take the ball out of bounds. Generally, the non-calling official will remain near the half court line and observe the players and make sure nothing else happens.

I had a sophmore game Monday where my partner and I had 4 technicals for language on one team( 2 in the 1st Qtr). Coach was not helping a bit, more of a problem actually. I used the time that my partner was administering the throws to go over and remind the coach about what we covered on sportsmanship and asked him to help us out. It did get somewhat better, but he still seemed to think we were picking on his team.
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Old Thu Jan 12, 2006, 10:47am
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I support the habit of reviewing the proceedure IN PREGAME regarding what you ask about.

We all agree that the "non" calling official approach the coach and give the seat-belt. Some firm, calm, very general behavior words might help here.

We will not encourage debate or discussion. The foul explaination is reported to the table. Any coach demanding a further explaination or discussion on a technical foul is just grand-standing and making matters worse.

The process needs to be handled quickly and efficiently so the attention can return back onto the game.
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Old Thu Jan 12, 2006, 11:32am
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Quote:
Originally posted by tomegun
What do you guys want to happen when you give a coach a T? Do you want your partners to talk to them or tell them what they did to get the T? Do you want to tell them? Do you stay table side or go across? This is something that seems simple at first (to some people anyway) but can be an issue.

I had a situation in a game the other night and I'm wondering how people on this board feel about this. I will tell my story when I come back from beating my buddy in racquetball!
I think I can give you a very definite "It depends". In most cases if a coach earns a T, there are negative feelings, and the best thing to do is for the calling official to get away from the coach and let their partner come in to try and calm down the coach, take some of the heat, or give the next T if it's warranted. However, there have been instances where I have given the T, then stayed next to the coach and calmed them down a little. There was one instance where I was C, and had a player shoot a 3-point shot from the corner, in front of their bench. The defender turned to block out the shooter, and the shooter went to the floor. As I turned to go up court after the rebound, the coach was in front of me on the floor yelling why hadn't I called the foul. Easy T. After I report it, I go back over to him and explain I had watched the entire play, the contact was minimal, and his player did not go down because of the contact. In fact, it looked a lot like the player was trying to draw the call. He calmed down right away, gave me a somewhat mumbled apology, and admitted he didn't see the contact because he was watching the ball; he just looked over after the shot and saw his player on the floor. This was one of those instances where being able to talk to the coach right away may have prevented further problems.

It's just one of those "feeling" things - sometimes if you feel it can help the situation, then by all means talk to the coach. In most cases, it's usually a good idea to get away.

How did the racketball game go?
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Old Thu Jan 12, 2006, 11:40am
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This is a good thing to pregame. My crew rotates away after a T. If you have time, you can let your partner know what they did so they can explain it if they need to. Luckily we haven't had to use this mechanic yet this season. Hopefully it stays that way.
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Old Thu Jan 12, 2006, 01:53pm
Huck Finn
 
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I won 3 out of 4 because of superior agility! We normally play cut throat but our other partner couldn't play and he was talking trash.

Anyway, it was the second half when I gave the T. The coach was reacting to a call I made with his arms spread out, he was out of the box in front and then he waved me off even though I was reporting to the table. Remember, this was the second half, so when I went across to become the T the new C came trotting (I'm gritting my teeth) over to me and says something like, "tell me what he did so I can tell him." I told him to tell the coach that I would be over there in a few minutes, because of an inevitable rotation. Remember, it was the second half and HE HAD NO BUSINESS GOING INTO THE BACK COURT TO TALK TO THE COACH ANYWAY. So during the next timeout I tried to explain to him that I would tell the coach and at that time it was a no-win situation anyway. When I did rotate in front of the coach, I told him why he got the T (in a normal talking tone) and he said, "OK, I understand." All this was NOT confrontational and he was cool with it. We finished the game, there was some other screwed up stuff and they just thought it was a good game. In the locker room, he told me that he wanted to know because he wanted to decide it he told the coach or not. Man, did I have the poker face working because that this point my jaw wanted to drop and I felt like yelling some expletives. I told him I will decide if I want the coach to know - I'm a grownass man and if I have the guts to call the T, I can tell him why. I went on to tell him that it is my pet peeve for someone to call a T and another official trotting over there to do what looks like console him. If the coach doesn't get the hint, he/she deserves the second one anyway. I also tried, in vain, to get him to understand that at the time there wasn't anything he could say to the coach that would have been good enough. The coach would/could have kept going and then he would have to make a decision to give him another one or walk away feeling like a chump. Just let him calm down and he will be more receptive to the reasoning, like it turned out. I still cannot believe that I called the T and he thought he would be the one to make the decision whether this guy got an immediate reason or not. That will be the day. By the way, this league does not have a seatbelt rule (Catholic league, their own rules) so nobody had to talk to him at all.

IMO, I don't want my partners near the coach in this situation. I don't want anyone speaking for me or giving their own interpretation of why I called a T. If it is necessary to tell the coach he must sit, I will tell him with a good distance (at least 8 feet) between us and then show him the backside so there is no impression of me getting right up next to him to console him. It burns me up when I see an official over there next to a coach after a T, doing everything except giving him a back rub. What are they saying, "yeah, I know that ref is a meanie, it will be all right." This is just my opinion, I could make up about 10 threads from this one game.
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Old Thu Jan 12, 2006, 02:05pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
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With the newer mechanic going table side, I do not see the point to go opposite table after I call a T. I also have yet to call a T on a head coach in the last few years that I can remember. I have called one on an assistant coach and I stayed table side and stood right next to the bench and no one said another word. When I work a basketball game I cannot avoid a coach all night. I never understood the logic behind getting away from a coach. I also do not like people to talk for me or explain things I have done. I am the person that made the call, I can explain it. I also do not like the attitude to get away on a 5th foul when I made the call.

I think we act as if we have run from people when we make hard choices. If a T is supposed to be like any other call, why do we treat this call so differently?

Peace
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Old Thu Jan 12, 2006, 02:16pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
With the newer mechanic going table side, I do not see the point to go opposite table after I call a T. I also have yet to call a T on a head coach in the last few years that I can remember. I have called one on an assistant coach and I stayed table side and stood right next to the bench and no one said another word. When I work a basketball game I cannot avoid a coach all night. I never understood the logic behind getting away from a coach. I also do not like people to talk for me or explain things I have done. I am the person that made the call, I can explain it. I also do not like the attitude to get away on a 5th foul when I made the call.

I think we act as if we have run from people when we make hard choices. If a T is supposed to be like any other call, why do we treat this call so differently?

Peace
While I am more than happy to stand right in front of a coach after whacking him, I don't see what point it serves. He knows why he got it, we have a game to continue, and if he's gonna keep acting up after getting a T, it doesn't look good if I end up having to go all Valentine-on-Bobby Knight on him and give him another technical.

Administer the free throws and rotate opposite and then forget about it.
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Old Thu Jan 12, 2006, 02:16pm
Huck Finn
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
With the newer mechanic going table side, I do not see the point to go opposite table after I call a T. I also have yet to call a T on a head coach in the last few years that I can remember. I have called one on an assistant coach and I stayed table side and stood right next to the bench and no one said another word. When I work a basketball game I cannot avoid a coach all night. I never understood the logic behind getting away from a coach. I also do not like people to talk for me or explain things I have done. I am the person that made the call, I can explain it. I also do not like the attitude to get away on a 5th foul when I made the call.

I think we act as if we have run from people when we make hard choices. If a T is supposed to be like any other call, why do we treat this call so differently?

Peace
For the most part I agree with you. I will say this, it is a good thing when I T a coach and they aren't calm. I operate from the "wish" position and I don't think the coach would like the outcome if I stood there because I don't really believe in this philosophy about not giving a coach two (same official). If the coach is going directly at an official, that official should give the coach both T's if needed.
I can also understand the lack of need to T a coach up. They have to know and expect to get one if they act up. When they don't believe (fat meat's greasy) they should learn quick. The D2 assigner I work for has all the officials cocked and loaded as you walk through the door. The coaches know this so they don't act up as much as other leagues. He went so far as to say we should put one in our pocket for next time if a coach is acting up in a blowout. That was funny!
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Old Thu Jan 12, 2006, 02:18pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
With the newer mechanic going table side, I do not see the point to go opposite table after I call a T. I also have yet to call a T on a head coach in the last few years that I can remember. I have called one on an assistant coach and I stayed table side and stood right next to the bench and no one said another word. When I work a basketball game I cannot avoid a coach all night. I never understood the logic behind getting away from a coach. I also do not like people to talk for me or explain things I have done. I am the person that made the call, I can explain it. I also do not like the attitude to get away on a 5th foul when I made the call.

I think we act as if we have run from people when we make hard choices. If a T is supposed to be like any other call, why do we treat this call so differently?

Peace
It's not like another call and those assignors and supervisors that say so are doing the avocation a great disservice. I don't get emotional on any other call. On the rare occasion I have to whack somebody, my mind isn't in the same place as during an illegal dribble.
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Old Thu Jan 12, 2006, 02:26pm
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The basic procedure I like is call it, get with partner(s) if we have multiple things...foul then T with FTs for both...get shooter(s) and administer, non-calling official seat belts coach.

I like the temp buffer of the non-calling official going over. It helps cool the situation. While we all like to say a T is just another call, it's not perceived that way from the one getting the T in most cases.

When my partner has the T, I'll notify and hang there for a few seconds, if the coach is venting in a calm manner, I'll let them for the duration of the FTs while my back is to them and I'm observing the other players.

If not, I'm calmly walking away and if the tirade continues, well we all know about the tag-team toss.
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Old Thu Jan 12, 2006, 02:32pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
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Here is what I am saying. A coach needs to get the hint when he is stuck. He or she obviously said something that got them in trouble. I know if I am in other situations I know what I am saying and why I am saying it. I do not need an explanation to tell me what I said was out of line or why someone reacted a certain way. On a basketball court (or any field or diamond) coaches know what they are saying and why they got in trouble. If they do not know what they did then they will eventually learn what they did after they get more experience as a coach.

I just think we treat a T so differently it does not make good sense. The call is not different than any other in the sense that it is a judgment by the calling official. When coaches realize that the call is just another call to us (in other words we do all the similar things as any other call mechanically) then they will stop making a bigger deal out of it themselves.

Peace
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Old Thu Jan 12, 2006, 02:53pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
Here is what I am saying. A coach needs to get the hint when he is stuck. He or she obviously said something that got them in trouble. I know if I am in other situations I know what I am saying and why I am saying it. I do not need an explanation to tell me what I said was out of line or why someone reacted a certain way. On a basketball court (or any field or diamond) coaches know what they are saying and why they got in trouble. If they do not know what they did then they will eventually learn what they did after they get more experience as a coach.

I just think we treat a T so differently it does not make good sense. The call is not different than any other in the sense that it is a judgment by the calling official. When coaches realize that the call is just another call to us (in other words we do all the similar things as any other call mechanically) then they will stop making a bigger deal out of it themselves.

Peace
That is perhaps the most naive statement I have ever read.

Some coaches perceive ALL calls as personal, and a technical is like saying something about their mother.

It will NEVER be looked at as just another call.

Factor in that on violations you lose the ball, on fouls you might shoot free throws, but on intentional and technical fouls they shoot and get the ball back.

The very penalty within the rules set it apart from "just another call".
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Old Thu Jan 12, 2006, 03:14pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra


That is perhaps the most naive statement I have ever read.

Some coaches perceive ALL calls as personal, and a technical is like saying something about their mother.

It will NEVER be looked at as just another call.

Factor in that on violations you lose the ball, on fouls you might shoot free throws, but on intentional and technical fouls they shoot and get the ball back.

The very penalty within the rules set it apart from "just another call".
I realize you think it is naive to you. I have been officiating for 10 years in 3 sports (you could include softball for a 2 year period to make that 4 sports). What I have learned is when you treat an unsportsmanlike violation as such a major event, they coaches treat the calls as a major event. When you treat it as another call, they treat it as another call. In basketball we go away from coaches when we have been going to them all game long (at least in 3 man mechanic). I know when I have worked a wing in football and I throw an unsportsmanlike flag, I am not going to the other side of the field because I penalize the coach or a player. In many cases I have to stand there and deal with deal with their attitude and the coaches either adjust or they go home. 99% of the time they get over themselves and they stay in the game. I think coaches go on and on in basketball because we run from them when we have every right to stand up to them. I am primarily talking about HS coaches not other levels as well. College coaches in my experience deal with situations differently because the coaching is their livelihood. They know if they are not around and they lose they might not have a job at the end of the season if those loses add up.

Now I have not thrown out a basketball coach in about 8 or 9 years. I have not had to. I also do not run from them when I give a T (which is very rare for me too) and I talk to them when they are upset. I will not say that coaches have not gotten very upset, but I do not run from them or act as if they need to be "handled" to accomplish good sportsmanship. I have also been taught by many bigger time officials at camps to treat a T as any other call. That is something I have done from very early in my career and has worked for me very well ever since. I guess to each his own.

Peace
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