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I've been reading a recent thread on "Patient Whistle".
What it advocates is that in order to determine advantage/disadvantage prior to whistling a foul you should wait for the total play to un-fold. If you determine that an offensive player was not put at a disadvantage by the foul, then you don't whistle. I'd like people's opinion on: 1) If you apply this rule, then doesn't it mean that you would never have a "and 1" scenario. If you wait for the play to unfold, the basket would be scored, therefore there's no way a player would've been at a disadvantage (with the exception of a hard foul of course). 2) Aren't you asking from it from the fans and the coaches. You hear it all the time "late whistle ref ... you weren't sure were you???". Jean |
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Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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1) It just means to let the play develop a bit rather than having a reactionary whistle. Instead of blowing the whistle and then admonishing yourself for having a quick one, delay a bit and see if the whistle was really necessary. Don't penalize the offense with a whistle that stops play and prevents them from getting an easy bucket. You still have some and-one's, just not so many and not ticky-tack ones.
2) What the fans say matters none. The better you become as a ref, the bigger distance you will put between what you know and what they know. Z |
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If the hit is soft and the ball goes in, then no foul. If the hit is soft and the ball does not go in, then is there a foul? Quote:
thanks for your reply cheers, Mr. Jean |
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My old signature line used to read:
"anticipate the play but not the call" That was before I started watching Simpsons' re-runs during supper. But I digress. Patient whistle: 1. See the whole play. 2. Wait for the whole play to develop. 3. Evaluate the contact. 4. Ask yourself "can I pass on this?" 5. Make your decision on whether to blow the whistle. If you do this, you will have the quick whistle when you need it, and you will avoid those calls you wish you could take back. Bottom line: coaches will occasionally complain about a late whistle. But they will ALWAYS complain about a ticky-tack call - and they should.
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HOMER: Just gimme my gun. CLERK: Hold on, the law requires a five-day waiting period; we've got run a background check... HOMER: Five days???? But I'm mad NOW!! |
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I hope that helps.
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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In most cases, for me anyway, the timing has nothing to do with being fouled in the act of shooting. Usually it occurs before the shooting motion begins, so we are waiting to see if A can play through the contact and shoot or pass to an open teammate.
As for comments about late whistles, my favorite is, "Yeah, it was late, but it was right." ![]() Keep in mind that good officiating philosophies require that some calls be made late. Patient and secondary whistles will always be timed a bit differently than the obvious foul in your primary. Strong mechanics and voice go a long way in preventing complaints about late whistles. You use a strong whistle, close in and vocalize and most times you will hear very little. |
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Jean the idea is to avoid the ticky-tack foul calls, especially on the made basket. These happen to me mostly when I see a little contact and blow the whistle immediately, without seeing how much it affects the shooter. A good defender can make a little contact, but then back off a little, and the shooter isn't put at an illegal disadvantage. If you blow the whistle right when the first contact happens, you might be giving a chintzy "And-1". Especially at the higher levels of play, a lot of shooters can "play through" and don't need a foul called on every little bump. Remember, though, that a good solid foul still needs to be called, even if the ball goes in.
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I heard the patient whistle concept explained this way this summer; "see the result of the contact and not just the contact". That has helped me alot.
Regarding fans comments, we've all made the most obvious call of the night and still heard it from the fans so forget them.
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Do you ever feel like your stuff strutted off without you? |
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I like all the comments presented but one thing I want to stress is the concept of consistency and bring attention to the POE on rough play. Particularly with respect to the amount of contact you deem to be harmless or not a "whistleable" offense.
Many times officials will allow levels of contact that do nothing but increase the level of physical play to a feverpitch. This is a result of simple poor judgement in what is deemed to be a foul. A patient whistle is one thing but passing on contact just because a player was able to play through it, did not end up on the floor, or the 3rd row is nonesense. Their was a POE on agressive and rough play!!!! Many times I see guys that have to tighten up their calls in the second half or the 4th quarter just to regain control of the game because of all the calls they passed on. This lack of consistency brings undersireable consequences. It's not just a coach screaming for a call, or the howling from the fans but you cannot ignore the safety of the players. There was a reason for the POE and I surmise in large part due to the fact that too much contact is being ignored when it should be called. I guess experience will have to be your guide in knowing WHAT is a foul and WHAT can/should be passed on. [Edited by Robmoz on Jul 21st, 2005 at 11:40 AM]
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"We judge ourselves by what we feel capable of doing, while others judge us by what we have already done." Chris Z. Detroit/SE Michigan ![]() |
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Not taking anything away from your point, b/c I don't think anyone would disagree with you.
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Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only! |
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"Coach, your player was still able to blow by the defender." "Coach, your player was still able to get to the basket."
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Luther |
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You are right Chuck, the post play may be the primary area of reference (even in the POE). I wanted to bring attention to the drive to the basket and the handchecking as well. I see way too much contact being passed on even though the offensive player gets through it. Consistency in the application of what is legal vs. illegal contact should not be overshawdowed by the risk of the ticky-tack or chintzy moniker of a call.
Having said that, I prefer to run a tight game so that I am not forced to make significant adjustments. I do not get complaints from AD's, evaluators, or assigners quite the contrary. As a result, when I have a patient whistle or delayed whistle call I do not have to sell anything because I have been consistent in my applications.
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"We judge ourselves by what we feel capable of doing, while others judge us by what we have already done." Chris Z. Detroit/SE Michigan ![]() |
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