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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jul 09, 2005, 12:14am
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Last Spring, working Frosh Boys tourney. Before the games, Ad tells me to take care of my partner. Second game of the morning. My partner is a good friend. He has been officiating for a very very long time. He's had some health problems and lost a step or two in the last couple of years -- and a lot of his patience with coaches. Here's the situation. About 35 seconds left. V team is up by 2. V team pulls down a rebound and starts upcourt. I switch from T to L and am in a good position for a fast break. V team pulls up and sets a play. V G goes right around a screen just inside the mid court line and starts driving for the basket. If he makes the shot he pretty much ices the game. Defender is 6-8 feet from me and I have been watching the play all the way. Defender clearly has LGP. He's straight up and has his toes planted through the floor. Driving guard drops his shoulder and plows into him. I blow the whistle and am ready to signal a charge when suddenly I hear my partner's voice ring out "I got it, I got this one!" He runs in from the trail position about ten yard behind the play, points to the defender and signals a block. Then he quickly turns to the table and reports it as a block. I can't believe what just happened. He runs into my area on my whistle, takes the call right out of my mouth, reports it before even looking at me -- and he's blown the call! H coach is livid. Fans are livid and I'm in shock! H team hits one and the bonus to tie the game. Then with 1.3 seconds left he calls a touch foul in a tie-game that sends H player to the line. He hits two free throws and wins the game. My partner leaves the court with a big smile because he was so proud of his game. I was speechless. Due to our friendship, I kept my mouth shut, but this was wrong. Two bad calls in the last minute cost the better team the game. What would you say if this happened to you? What would you suggest I say if it happens again this year. Anything? or Nothing?
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Old Sat Jul 09, 2005, 12:26am
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Had the roles been reversed, what would you have liked your partner to say to you?

Ask him what he saw on the block/charge play, and ask whether he thought he was reaching a bit. If the conversation is calm enough, bring up primary/secondary defender.

Don't worry about it too much, and certainly don't bring up the "game has passed him by" stuff. A lot of eyes saw the two calls - and if it's become a habit with him, many more eyes have witnessed the pattern.
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Old Sat Jul 09, 2005, 12:43am
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Not much to say. Once you let him take the call from you in your primary, you lost your opportunity. From your description of him, just leave it behind you.

Z
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Old Sat Jul 09, 2005, 12:48am
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If he was your friend, depending on how close he was I'd bring it up but that's just me. All of the officials which I am good friends with are able to take criticsm from me and have no problem when I bring up something, tell them what I saw or what I think. They also do the same to me.
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Old Sat Jul 09, 2005, 03:40am
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From the way you describe the play, and without knowledge of how you decided to cover that type of play (block/charge in transition) I can't tell whether or not he was right to take that call. I personally like taking the play as the new trail if it comes from my half of the court. Regardless, I think you need to bring up this play with your partner just to prevent the same thing from happening again. Perhaps your partner had a great view of where the contact occured on the defender. Obviously he saw something if he was so decisive that he wanted to jump in and take it. By discussing this you will only learn from it, burying it doesn't help IMO in this situation.
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Old Sat Jul 09, 2005, 07:19am
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Maybe I haven't had quite enough coffee yet today and I realize your post has more to do with a general situation with your partner than any specifics............but if a block was called on H, why did H then shoot free throws that tied the game? Wouldn't the sitch have been V on the line shooting with a chance to go up by 3 or 4 pts?

Regardless of the details, a tough sitch and we're probably all a little more aware of what can happen by your sharing of the story. I'm not sure how many times you've worked with this partner, but maybe pre-game becomes even more important when working with our friends/regular partners so that we don't get complacent. I worked a lot of games last season with the same partner and actually found more things that should've been pre-gamed all the time as the season went on.
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Old Sat Jul 09, 2005, 08:09am
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Quote:
Originally posted by canuckrefguy
Ask him what he saw on the block/charge play, and ask whether he thought he was reaching a bit. If the conversation is calm enough, bring up primary/secondary defender.

Don't worry about it too much, and certainly don't bring up the "game has passed him by" stuff.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Old Sat Jul 09, 2005, 11:06am
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Pretty much already said but.......

Talk about it after the game.

Ask him what he saw on the play.

Ask him if he realized you had a call on the play?

Hear his point of view and move on.

It was just a lower level game. It was not the end of the world on a missed call or missed coverage like this.

If he is a true friend you should be able to have an open discussion about the situation. If he is not a friend or you do not know him very well, move on.

Peace
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Old Sat Jul 09, 2005, 11:58am
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I agree with everyone here.

But also remember that he didn't give away the game. Remember that your job is "to see that the team that plays better during that game, wins". If the score is tied with 1.3 seconds to go, it's pretty much a toss-up. The team that lost, lost because of the missed free-throws, the stupid fouls, the errant passes, and the ill-advised shots, not because of a call or two at the end of the game.

That doesn't mean that you shouldn't be concerned about your friend, or shouldn't say anything. It just means that you can't really accuse him of giving away the game, unless you suspect that he made those calls deliberately to favor one team. And if you suspect that, you've got a much bigger problem to deal with than an incompetent block/charge decision.
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Old Sun Jul 10, 2005, 05:48pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker
I agree with everyone here.

But also remember that he didn't give away the game. Remember that your job is "to see that the team that plays better during that game, wins". If the score is tied with 1.3 seconds to go, it's pretty much a toss-up. The team that lost, lost because of the missed free-throws, the stupid fouls, the errant passes, and the ill-advised shots, not because of a call or two at the end of the game.
Although that is correct we are still looking at this from an official's point of view. We MUST get plays correct in the last 2 minutes of the game. If the same play is called incorrectly in the first 3 minutes of a game the team has time to recover. Calling a play incorrectly so late in the game doesn't give the team a chance to recover from the call.
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Old Sun Jul 10, 2005, 06:42pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by refnrev
I'm in shock!
Despite what just transpired I think you have to regain your composure fast enough to hit your whistle as soon as you see him signal or hear him say, "Block!"

Assuming your interpretation is correct, then everyone in the gym except your partner saw the play properly and now everyone thinks the officiating crew is crap. You need to restore your integrity ASAP by calling a conference (even if it's after he's reported to the table).

After you pass on info that your partner may not have seen(i.e. defender had LGP and offensive player dipped his shoulder) it'll still be up to him to reverse his call, but at least you can strongly suggest that it should've been a charge.

Be prepared to go to the opposing coach though to do some damage control now that the call went against him, but if he saw the play correctly and has some decency, then it won't be too bad.
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Old Sun Jul 10, 2005, 07:36pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dribble
Quote:
Originally posted by refnrev
I'm in shock!
Despite what just transpired I think you have to regain your composure fast enough to hit your whistle as soon as you see him signal or hear him say, "Block!"

Assuming your interpretation is correct, then everyone in the gym except your partner saw the play properly and now everyone thinks the officiating crew is crap. You need to restore your integrity ASAP by calling a conference (even if it's after he's reported to the table).

After you pass on info that your partner may not have seen(i.e. defender had LGP and offensive player dipped his shoulder) it'll still be up to him to reverse his call, but at least you can strongly suggest that it should've been a charge.

Be prepared to go to the opposing coach though to do some damage control now that the call went against him, but if he saw the play correctly and has some decency, then it won't be too bad.
I can't wait to see some of the responses to this. JR, pass the popcorn !!
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 11, 2005, 02:45pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dribble
Quote:
Originally posted by refnrev
I'm in shock!
Despite what just transpired I think you have to regain your composure fast enough to hit your whistle as soon as you see him signal or hear him say, "Block!"

Assuming your interpretation is correct, then everyone in the gym except your partner saw the play properly and now everyone thinks the officiating crew is crap. You need to restore your integrity ASAP by calling a conference (even if it's after he's reported to the table).

After you pass on info that your partner may not have seen(i.e. defender had LGP and offensive player dipped his shoulder) it'll still be up to him to reverse his call, but at least you can strongly suggest that it should've been a charge.

Be prepared to go to the opposing coach though to do some damage control now that the call went against him, but if he saw the play correctly and has some decency, then it won't be too bad.
That's a horrible idea, if you yell Block and he signals PC then you have to report a blarge. Not only that reversing your call just looks horrible and if I'm the coach I'm going to use this to my advantage and ask why his judgement is no better than yours. You will most likely end up giving a technical foul and possibly ejecting a coach because you decided you would attempt to fix the situation.
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Old Mon Jul 11, 2005, 03:39pm
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That's a horrible idea, if you yell Block and he signals PC then you have to report a blarge. Not only that reversing your call just looks horrible and if I'm the coach I'm going to use this to my advantage and ask why his judgement is no better than yours. You will most likely end up giving a technical foul and possibly ejecting a coach because you decided you would attempt to fix the situation. [/B][/QUOTE]

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Which is precisely why I kept my mouth shut. Remember he came running in shouting "I've got this one!" and signaled block so I got into position to administer the free throws. I did leave out he was the R and I was the U that game. Ultimately, if push came to shove, it wouldn't have mattered what I thought. He was the R. I don't think the call was right, but I'm not about to make a scene on the floor. A questionable call is inevitable -- but a divided crew is not.
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Old Thu Jul 21, 2005, 02:14pm
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I've never been in this situation (maybe becuse I am quite fresh as a ref) but I would have lfet it during game, esspecialy if he was R and I U, but I would ask him as quick as I could, perhaps during a pass-by at a throw-in or free throws, just change a few words but still make a mark that "I saw the call, I can take it, you don't need to bother" or something like that. Still it's a tricky situation and I think you did the right thing, especcialy scince he was a friedn, but it's damned hard making those calls right-and worse changing them
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