Most Misunderstood rules--

[Kelvin green]

Originally posted by Rick Durkee
Consider adding the idea that it is not travel to slide on the floor while holding a loose ball.

Its not I was told last night by high school coaches that if you have control and slide it is a travel. i then told them that's not the rule and they told me I am the first person in 10 years who has called it that way... Unbelieveable!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by scyguy
JR, is it a valuable lesson full of informative thoughts? Information that will make us better officials? If so, I am game, since my motivation for checking this forum is to become a better official.

Naw, it's just me having a l'il fun. If you don't like it, ignore it.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Kelvin green

Its not I was told last night by high school coaches that if you have control and slide it is a travel. i then told them that's not the rule and they told me I am the first person in 10 years who has called it that way... Unbelieveable!

What really would be "unbelievable" would be if you really believed those coaches.

Standard Coachspeak #11- "That's the first time that I've ever seen that one called".

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Slappys are awarded for the best, unique and funniest technical fouls that are handed out. The award is named after it's greatest practitioner- our very own Dan-ref, aka Slappy Dan.

Just a little history for the newbies. Tomorrow we'll tell you the story of how the "Chuckie" came into being.......

Yup, this is what the Chuckiestatuette looks like, folks!

Okay, I won't nominate Rick for a Slappy then. Is there another award for best post of the week? Or most creative use of other people's material, or something?

By the way, I hope you pay royalties to the guy who took that photo of Chuck. He'll be a rich person before he dies.

[Rick Durkee]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee


Yup, this is what the Chuckiestatuette looks like, folks!

Whoa! That picture's nuts!

Rick

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Rick Durkee

Whoa! That picture's nuts!

Rick

What about 'em Rick?

[Forksref]

Originally posted by rotationslim
Am doing a handout sheet for my league members, want to address some misunderstood rules, MAYBE if they read it they won't plead for a traveling call on every rebounded airball... or demand a whistle on an inadvertant foot touch of the ball... or (my favorite) argue that not all technical fouls are 2 shots, some are just 1.

Anyway a while back someone posted a great rundown on minunderstood rules, but I can't seem to find it -- can anyone re-post. I tried a search, but for whatever reason it said the administrator had disabled the search function.

Block/Charge - most people think the Defender has to be "set" but as long as the shoulders are square, he/she can be moving backwards and still draw a charge

Over and Back - The ball and both feet have to be "over" the half-court line before you can go "back." Therefore if you have one foot in the back court, you can move your other foot to the front court and back to the back court and it won't be over and back.

3-seconds - This count stops when the ball leaves the shooter's hands but the count is on when the ball is loose after last possessed by the offense in the front court.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by Kelvin green

Its not I was told last night by high school coaches that if you have control and slide it is a travel. i then told them that's not the rule and they told me I am the first person in 10 years who has called it that way... Unbelieveable!

Unfortunately, they're probably accurate in thier assertion that they've never seen it called that way. I see it called wrong more than I see it called right.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Forksref

Block/Charge - most people think the Defender has to be "set" but as long as the shoulders are square, he/she can be moving backwards and still draw a charge

Over and Back - The ball and both feet have to be "over" the half-court line before you can go "back." Therefore if you have one foot in the back court, you can move your other foot to the front court and back to the back court and it won't be over and back.

They can move any direction but, TOWARD the offensive player at the point of contact, and their shoulders DO NOT have to be squared. The defender may turn away and still take a PC foul.

The 3 points only apply to a dribble. If you catch a ball with a foot in the BC and one in the FC, you are in the BC, but when that foot that was in the BC leaves the floor, you DO have FC status.

[Rick Durkee]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
What about 'em Rick?

Do you think that will be enough for the winter?

Rick

[bossref]

I wrote the "Most Misunderstood Rules" sheet for new officials in San Diego's rec leagues about 15 years ago.

We now give the rec league captains a copy before each season and it has greatly reduced the whinibg about simple things like "retrieving your own airball" or moving your feet on a designated spot throwin.

I'm especially proud of the explanation of the legality of returning back inbounds after saving a loose ball. We tell them that they've got to return at approximately the same location where they left the court and "must have SOMETHING IN and NOTHING OUT!".

Send an email to [email protected] and I will forward
you a copy and you can use it as written, edit it, or do whatever.

Good luck.
Barry Alman
BOSS Officials
San Diego, CA 92110

[canuckrefguy]

I was at a tournament today watching a game where one team was pressing. The offensive team called timeout after eight seconds. A coach sitting nearby actually asked me "so do they get a new 10?" I kind of paused, gathered myself, and replied yes. A player sitting next to him, dumbfounded, said "REALLY?"

sigh

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by bossref
I wrote the "Most Misunderstood Rules" sheet for new officials in San Diego's rec leagues about 15 years ago.

I'm especially proud of the explanation of the legality of returning back inbounds after saving a loose ball. We tell them that they've got to return at approximately the same location where they left the court and "must have SOMETHING IN and NOTHING OUT!".

Barry, could you point out the rule to me that backs up your statement above that a player going OOB has to return at approximately the same location where he left? Please be specific, as I am not a rules expert like you and I am also not aware of the existence of any such language. I was under the impression that you had to return in-bounds immediately from where your momentum took you after you went OOB. You're saying that,if a player's momentum takes him 20 feet up a sideline trying to save a ball, then that player has to come back 20 feet and then come in-bounds where he originally went out. Wouldn't that be a "delay returning", and thus be a T under R10-3-3? Please let me know where I can find your interpretation in the rule book.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Dec 18th, 2004 at 08:19 AM]

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by bossref
I wrote the "Most Misunderstood Rules" sheet for new officials in San Diego's rec leagues about 15 years ago.

I just went to your web site(below) and looked at your "Most Misunderstood Rules", Barry.
http://www.sdboss.com/rules.htm

I seem to be personally still misunderstanding about four(4) of your rules, not including the one I already asked about in another post. Maybe you can clear up my misunderstandings. I certainly would appreciate it.

(1) "E" -"Palming is when the hand is under the ball..."
-- In the definition of "palming" in R4-15-4(b), it says that the ball has to come to rest. Nowhere in the rules can I find anything that states that the hand being under the ball during a dribble is actually illegal. I did find that R4-15-2 states that "During the dribble the ball may be batted into the air provided it is permitted to strike the floor before the ball is touched again with the hands". Can't you legally bat the ball into the air with your hand under it, as you wrote in "E"?

(2) "G" - "Cannot touch the ball or rim if the ball is on the rim or in the imaginary cylinder".
-- Could you point out the rule to me that states that it is Basket Interference if a player touches the rim while the ball is in the cylinder above it? I was under the impression(probably mistakenly) that it was only a violation to touch the rim when the ball was on or within the basket, and that it's not a violation to touch the rim when the ball is above the basket in the cylinder. Rule 4-6-1 seems to be saying the same thing. Could you please clear up this misunderstanding for me also?

(3) "M" - "The coach may call a timeout if the ball is in his team's possession or ball dead".
-- Doesn't a team also have possession during a pass, fumble, interrupted dribble, etc.? Rule 4-12-2 seems to state that. And Rule 5-8-3(a) states that you can only grant the time-out if the ball is in the control or at the disposal of a player. Please let me know where I can find the rule that allows an official to grant a time-out during all team possessions such as passes too.

(4) "W" - "It is legal to hang on the rim if fouled".
-- Please help me out on this one too, and let me know where I can find this in the rules. The only rule that I am aware of that is pertinent is R10-3-4EXCEPTION, and that states that the only exempt act is if you hang on the rim to "prevent injury". I was not aware that a defender could foul a player as soon as he started the act of shooting, and the player could then complete the "shooting" act- including an airborne shooter- and hang on the rim legally.

I certainly appreciate your straightening out of these "misunderstood rules" for me, Barry. I certainly misunderstand them and I'm always willing to learn.

[bossref]

The printout of Most Misunderstood Rules was meant to
be a guide for novice recreational officials and seems to work well with adult rec league players.

Just as any rulebook usually is concise and doesn't cover every situation, so is this handout.

I tried to be as direct and accurate as possible, while keeping the interpretations on ONE PAGE.

Regarding the rules that you are disputing, I can only say that I have been to more than a few rules interpretation sessions of West Coast collegiate officials in the mid 1980s
and several issues were discussed that the rulebook failed to clarify.

One was the issue of coming back inbounds and it was stated by interpreters that the player would be gaining an advantage if coming back in at any spot other than where he/she left the court.

I hope you understand that I am not implying that my handout is perfect. I do defend it as it has acted as a fair quick-reference for players and coaches (and officials) who argue about misconceptions.

I try to have everyone understand that the rulebook is a foundationfromwhich we make our decisions. I also try to explain the "spirit & intent" of many rules.

This sheet is not all encompassing and may not fully explain things to your liking, but it is easier that giving a rulebook, illustration book, and caseplay book to everyone that might need a little more rules education.