Tennessee-Baylor ending

[smoref]

Originally posted by BOBBYMO
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Last night on the Late ESPN sports center the said the officlas name.

In what context did they say his name?

[iamaref]

Also.. boy this play is making me think.

It is taught... and I assume practiced by many of the big time officials. TO see the whole play.. let it develop.. and see the end of it.

From an officiating mechanics standpoint.. shouldn't the call have come after the clock expired. Cuz he would have seen the whole play through.. and the whistle would have come after the clock ??

IF we are putting time back on clock... because the foul happened "at that instant" then I contend that we should do that the ENTIRE game. BECAUSE.. as has been so stated throughout this thread.. a foul is the same at the 10 minute mark as it is at .2. IF SO.. then why are we putting time back on the clock for THIS particuliar foul ?????????

I'm not saying this literally.. just an idea to think about when you talk about treating situations similiarly throughout the game. They did NOT treat it similiarly.

I do think it was a very very tough play... and possibly a quick whistle resulted in a suspect result. Officiating is all "Grey area" in my opinion. It is not black and white. We are talking instantaneous decisions, with tenth's of seconds. Of course it was tough.. I guess that is how you determine who officiates the REAL BIG GAMES. How you handle these situations of the course of a career.

[caref]

Examples...examples...examples..Too bad I did not tape the game. I'd go through it and look for speific examples.

By the way I will ahve a little ore respect for you and not call you names....
oh the heck with it,, lets jsut call you the rule book guy and leave it at that

[Adam]

imaref,
Assume you have a shooting player who gets fouled with, let's say, .2 sec left. You blow your whistle virtually simultaneously with the horn. You check the replay to see how much time is on the clock, not whether or not the foul happened before the horn. If contact came before the end of the game, shoot the shots. You can't just ignore the foul because it was so close to the end of the game.

[BOBBYMO]

Last night on the Late ESPN sports center the said the officlas name.
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In what context did they say his name?

They said his name and that he was the lead offical who made the call. They said that he would not comment to ESPN and that he declined an interview with them.

[iamaref]

Snaqwell..

I think you have to be creative in situations like this. I'm not saying IGNORE the foul.

I'm saying.. yes it was a foul.. BUT, NOT a very clear foul.. and one that if not called.. would not be argued. GREY area REMEMBER. Loose ball foul.. with no possession.. sure she bumped her a little.. but, it was not a "must have call" by any means.

I'm saying.. be creative as the Crew Chief.

As you look at the play.. to determine the time.. kinda take a peek at the contact as you do it. If there is no evidence about when the whistle was blown.. then you do not HAVE to administer the penalty.

OVERTIME

just my opinion..

there is an elastic clause for ref's in the rule book... maybe doesn't apply hear.. but, can be used when needed.

[Hawks Coach]

I didn't see the play Sunday, but watched it several times yesterday. I first thought that it clearly was not a push (or over the back as some would have it!) on the first rebound. The second rebound would certainly be a foul at any other point in the game. That said, if the whistle had been a little slower (i.e., the ref had a chance to see that it was foul-horn, bang-bang), it is a foul call that could be "passed" on. The foul did not impact the game because no shot would have been released. I think that is why people struggle with the call. However, in no way do I think the ref was making the call to bail out a big time program. And I don't have a horse in this race. If aything, I would like to see new teams move forward in the womens ranks rather than the same old Tenn and Uconn.

Once the whistle was blown, no chance to change the call - it had to be done like it was. In NF, without replay rules, I am betting that many would say they had whistle after horn and go to overtime.

[wizard]

Originally posted by Jesse James
Advantage/disadvantage?

The foul was called with .2 left, and the Tennessee player nowhere near a shooting motion. By study, it takes over .3 to release a shot. How was the Tennessee player disadvantaged when she couldn't possibly have scored a field goal anyway?

So are you saying that if the foul had happened 2/10 of a second sooner, it is allowed to be called? That the bonus comes into play for only the first 19:59:58 of each half, and not all 20 minutes of each half?

[Adam]

imaref,
It doesn't matter when the whistle blew. If the contact was before the horn, and you whistled it, you have to stick with it. Even if the whistle blows after the horn, you have to go with it, from the way I understand NCAA rules. The timing rules in the NCAA are different from NFHS, in that there is no lag time accounted for, and they seem to set the clock at the point of the infraction rather than the whistle.
Look, I can understand people questioning the call. That's fair game, but I'm amused at how people can say it was a horrible call, and that it cost Baylor the game, and that it would not have been made by a mature official. Those charges are just ludicrous.
I haven't seen the play, and frankly don't care who won (not because it's women, but because it was Tennessee and Baylor) beyond an agreement with HawksCoach that I'd like to see some new teams make it for a change.

[just another ref]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
....if the whistle had been a little slower (i.e., the ref had a chance to see that it was foul-horn, bang-bang), it is a foul call that could be "passed" on. The foul did not impact the game because no shot would have been released.

In NF, without replay rules, I am betting that many would say they had whistle after horn and go to overtime.

I had a play once like this in a jr. high game. Team A ties the game with just a few seconds left. Team B pushes the ball up the court frantically hoping to get off a shot.
B1 catches a pass 25 feet from the basket and is flattened
by A1. There is a whistle and the clock stops on 0:00 and we hear just a hint of buzzer. B1 is given 2 free throws,
(2 to make 1) makes the first and the game is over. A's coach threw a screaming fit..........at A1: "WHY WERE YOU EVEN CLOSE TO HIM??!!"

[BOBBYMO]

This call was made by a mature official. It was a great call. The only bad thing about it was the timing of the call if you are a Baylor fan.

I would take this guy as a partner any day of the week as he proved that he had the guts to make the call. A foul is a foul no matter how much time is left or no matter what the score is.

I hope that he is rewarded for his great work

[Edited by BOBBYMO on Mar 30th, 2004 at 01:40 PM]

[Jurassic Referee]

The Tennessee coach was quoted on ESPN today as follows- "If such a foul occurs in the first 3 minutes of the game, do you call it? Yes!".

Just thought I'd throw that in.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by caref
Examples...examples...examples..Too bad I did not tape the game. I'd go through it and look for speific examples.

By the way I will ahve a little ore respect for you and not call you names....
oh the heck with it,, lets jsut call you the rule book guy and leave it at that

Gee, why aren't I surprised that you refuse to answer the question?

Maybe next time that you want to crap on officials to officials, you might think a little bit before you do so. Kinda tough when you don't really have the knowledge or experience to back up your slurs, isn't it? Constructive criticism is fine. Destructive criticism, well, we expect that from fans, and not referees. If you are a referee.

Yes, you can also call me "rule book guy" if you want. I'll call you "lack of rulebook knowledge/backstabber guy". Sound fair?

[smoref]

Originally posted by caref
Examples...examples...examples..Too bad I did not tape the game. I'd go through it and look for speific examples.

By the way I will ahve a little ore respect for you and not call you names....
oh the heck with it,, lets jsut call you the rule book guy and leave it at that

I did record the game and if you want a copy of the tape send me a self adreessed stamped video tape envelope along w/a blank tape and I will record it for you.

If you realy want it post your e-mail addr and I will send you my mailing address.

[JasonTX]

I did record the game and if you want a copy of the tape send me a self adreessed stamped video tape envelope along w/a blank tape and I will record it for you.

Do you have the capablities of posting that play on the internet or have you seen it posted somewhere else.