what is "on the floor"?

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by just another ref


I feel that you should find something more significant to worry about.

You got that right!!!

Peace

[canuckrefguy]

Originally posted by timharris
i informed the guys we will no longer use the terminology "on the floor" this has no meaning in the game of basketball, what we are really trying too say is "no shot", i was trying to point out, if you are saying, on the floor, why not say "in the air" when the airborne shooter is fouled in the air

Imagine:

"Well, Tony/Jeff/Mark/Chuck/etc, I'd love to give you that Varsity playoff assignment, but I just can't. Your calls are excellent, your mechanics are great, and your partners say you're a joy to work with. I even had a coach come up the other day and say how fair and approachable you are.

But you're still saying stuff like "on the floor", "that way", and such. That's really incorrect. The players and coaches don't give a rat's a**, but it's still wrong. See you next season."

[Rich]

Originally posted by timharris
i see this has touched a few nerves, if i stepped on any toes i apologize, im sorry for wanting my guys too be the best, being good takes hardwork, currently im a ncaa baseball official and i can tell you this, if my interpreter tells me something, i best adhere to it or i will be busted back to doing pony league games on tuesday and wednesday, so being and excellent official is hardwork and sometimes you have to make changes you do not like.

[Edited by timharris on Dec 21st, 2003 at 04:45 PM]

So what you're saying is that being better means listening to you, regardless of how stupid or trivial your "advice" is? Are you going to bust people back to youth ball if they don't follow your every whim?

I am also a college baseball umpire. And 99% of being a good baseball umpire involves calling pitches well and having good game management skills. If you are in a conference where being deferential to the assignor is the most important skill, I feel sorry for you.

I feel more sorry for the officials in your association.

Rich

[ChuckElias]

Look, Tim's trying to do the right thing, just going about it in a heavy-handed manner. "On the floor" really is not a good expression for an official to use. Primarily b/c it doesn't say what the official wants to say. The official wants to say that there was no shot on the play. But as we all know, you can fouled before going airborne and still complete the throwing motion for goal. So the official should just say "no shot", as Tim proposes.

So I agree that "on the floor" really shouldn't be used. (And if NCAAW really say it's fine, well, that's just one more dumb thing they do, frankly.) And if you want to ding 'em a point for it, I suppose that's up to the evaluator.

But, I don't think you'll get much support for "imposing" this as if it were a career-breaker. There really are more important things, as others have made clear.

[coach/ref]

Before we boot out the phrase "on the floor" we must consider how effective and concise it is. Every one of us knows what it means, and 90% of coaches know what it means, so why not adopt it? When a ref says, "on the floor" all of the players know immediately that they do not need to line up for shots, so they are not standing around confused and the game continues at a good pace.

Also, see rule 4-45 article 1 for use of the term "floor."

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

With apologies to J. Dallas Shirely, I teach my students to never say "on the floor."

To say "on the floor" is meaningless. When a player is fouled, he/she is either in the act of shooting or not in the act of shooting. A player can be in contact with the floor and still be in the act of shooting. I do not have my NFHS or CCA officials manuals in front of me, but the correct procedure when calling a foul is:

1) The official should sound his whistle and signal the timer to stop the clock.

2) The official should step toward the player who committed the foul and call out his/her color and number.

3) If free throws are not to be shot, the official should signal the spot and direction of the throw-in and announce the color of the team making the throw-in.

4) If free throws are to be shot, the official should announce the number of free throws and announce to his partner(s) the color and number of the free throw shooter.

If this protocol is followed there is no confusion as to what type of foul was committed.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by coach/ref
Before we boot out the phrase "on the floor" we must consider how effective and concise it is. Every one of us knows what it means, and 90% of coaches know what it means, so why not adopt it? When a ref says, "on the floor" all of the players know immediately that they do not need to line up for shots, so they are not standing around confused and the game continues at a good pace.

Also, see rule 4-45 article 1 for use of the term "floor."

What should be more concerning is that 75% of the time, when an official yells, "On the floor!" continuous motion has ALREADY begun.

I think it's the most misapplied rule/call in the sport!

[zebraman]

timharris

To be fair, you should also deduct points from anyone who uses spelling, grammer and run-on sentences anywhere near as bad as you do or is half as sanctimonious.

Z

[Rich]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

What should be more concerning is that 75% of the time, when an official yells, "On the floor!" continuous motion has ALREADY begun.

I think it's the most misapplied rule/call in the sport!

Absolutely. You win the prize. I hear more coaches complaining about my "giving" the fouled player free throws than anything else. But once continuous shooting motion begins, we are in the act of shooting and are going to shoot free throws.

Rich

[SoFL_Rookie]

I'm a rookie HS official, but I'd like to weigh in on what I think is the larger issue that pops up in discussions such as these.

Some new officials (self included) sometimes sound like basketball rules fundamentalists / zealots. We are book-wise but not court-wise, and grab onto minor points (especially mechanics) as if they were severe infractions.

Some experienced officials sometimes sound like basketball rules revisionists. They are court-wise, but sometimes feel that proper game management supercedes literal interpretation of the manual.

My personal view is that an official is administering the game for (hopefully) knowledgeable players, coaches, and fans. If the official is clearly understood and applying the rules correctly, then I think he/she is doing a good job.

Matt

[davidw]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
With apologies to J. Dallas Shirely, I teach my students to never say "on the floor."

To say "on the floor" is meaningless. When a player is fouled, he/she is either in the act of shooting or not in the act of shooting. A player can be in contact with the floor and still be in the act of shooting. I do not have my NFHS or CCA officials manuals in front of me, but the correct procedure when calling a foul is:

1) The official should sound his whistle and signal the timer to stop the clock.

2) The official should step toward the player who committed the foul and call out his/her color and number.

3) If free throws are not to be shot, the official should signal the spot and direction of the throw-in and announce the color of the team making the throw-in.

4) If free throws are to be shot, the official should announce the number of free throws and announce to his partner(s) the color and number of the free throw shooter.

If this protocol is followed there is no confusion as to what type of foul was committed.

Mark,

My question is, as officials, are we allowed to ONLY use those phrases, labels, terms etc. found in our NF books and nothing else? I don't think that is the aim or goal of those involved in setting the rules and GUIDELINES. Although I agree that we would probably be understood by most who saw us, we most likely would become very robotic (as pointed out in other comments) and our natural or even developed personalities and communication skills would be lost.

Our task is SO much about communication. A certain amount of our individuality and personality should be allowed to shine forth. As in most things, moderation seems to provide the best outcomes.

[JAdams]

Eveyone knows how important communication is in officiating. It can be visual (eye contact) or verbal. If my partner uses the phrase "on the floor," I know what s/he has. I'd much rather hear that (even if it's technically incorrect) than nothing at all.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Originally posted by JAdams
Eveyone knows how important communication is in officiating. It can be visual (eye contact) or verbal. If my partner uses the phrase "on the floor," I know what s/he has. I'd much rather hear that (even if it's technically incorrect) than nothing at all.

And if they used the more correct term "no shot" or "red out of bounds" I think you would know also.

[Rich]

Sure. But would I know their intent ANY better? Would anyone else?

Rich

[Camron Rust]

The problem with using slang terms like "on-the-floor" is that they so often contribute to the propagation of part of a myth.

Taken literally, "on the floor" implies that you can't have a shooting foul if the shooter is still in contact with the floor. Of course, we know that is not true: once the foot/arm movemets have begun, the act of shooting has begun.

However, to use this term will continue to contribute to controversy and misunderstanding. You and I may know what it really is intended to mean but we are actualy communicating not only to our partners but to the teams, coachs, and spectators. We shouldn't use any words or signals that perpetuate a myth.

Some other common communication phrases or signals that also convey the wrong thing and propagate myths:

Wasn't set

Traveling on the throw-in

Over the back

Reach

If we are going to use non-book terminology, we must at least make sure it is not actually communicating the wrong thing.

Instead of "on the floor", I simply state "White, 44, block, blue ball OOB" (while pointing to the spot). If it is close, I'll preface that with "No Shot" (and matching signal).

[Edited by Camron Rust on Dec 22nd, 2003 at 05:11 PM]