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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 21, 2003, 04:13pm
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hello all,


just wanna say i have never personally met any of you guys are gals here but from the rule knowledge and rules interpretations that i have received here, i would referee a game with most of the officials here and thats a fact, thanks for all the useful information over the years you folks are the best and as long as this site is here, we all will make the game alot easier too officiate. now geting to my question during my rules interpretations clinic last wednesday, i informed the guys we will no longer use the terminology "on the floor" this has no meaning in the game of basketball, what we are really trying too say is "no shot", i was trying to point out, if you are saying, on the floor, why not say "in the air" when the airborne shooter is fouled in the air, but my problem is with some of the older veterans of the game, they have been saying this so long they dont wanna change, but i have informed them as rule interpretator and evaluator, if this term "on the floor" is used while being evaluated, points will be deducted from there evaluation. how do you fellow officials feel about this? any information will be greatly appreciated.


thanks


have a very merry christmas



timothy harris
rules interpreter
regional officials association


[Edited by timharris on Dec 21st, 2003 at 04:02 PM]
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Old Sun Dec 21, 2003, 04:26pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by timharris
i informed the guys we will no longer use the terminology "on the floor" .......how do you fellow officials feel about this?

I feel that you should find something more significant to worry about.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 21, 2003, 04:45pm
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If they don't buy into it, all you're going to do is alienate them. I agree that there are plenty of terms that are used, that shouldn't be. Instead of forcing it on them, why not just do a clinic presentation on all of these types of terms, such as:

over the back
blue ball
on the floor
stay here
that way
jump ball
reachin' in

Make it part of the eval but don't hammer on it.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Dec 21st, 2003 at 07:12 PM]
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 21, 2003, 04:45pm
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Thumbs down

If you'd feel comfortable working with anyone in this forum, you have a ton more confidence than I do in some of the people who post here.

Alot of folks here are very, very good officials. Alot more are officials just getting started, or only a couple of years in.
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Old Sun Dec 21, 2003, 04:48pm
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this is significant

thats the problem you guys are using your own style on the court and thats not the place for it as a referee you need substance and not style thats the problem with officials today we are over looking the small things and the officiating is drastically going down hill, every aspect of the game is important and to be a better official everyone must be on the same page
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Old Sun Dec 21, 2003, 05:00pm
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Re: this is significant

Quote:
Originally posted by timharris
thats the problem you guys are using your own style on the court and thats not the place for it as a referee you need substance and not style thats the problem with officials today we are over looking the small things and the officiating is drastically going down hill, every aspect of the game is important and to be a better official everyone must be on the same page
Tim, from your response above, it appears that you truly believe YOUR way is the best way. Let me tell you, as an evaluator if you don't show some flexibility, you will be tuned out more so than not. Here's a question. Is every player the same? Every coach? Hardly.

I can totally understand your desire to have every official that works to be on the same page, but that is simply not possible. We have different personalities, mannerisms and attitudes. In order to have every official do the exact same thing every time, you should order your association 100 robots and program them as you wish.

I'm not trying to be facetious here, just pointing out the facts.
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Old Sun Dec 21, 2003, 05:00pm
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thanks basketball ref

you made and excellent point, these terms shouldnt even be used in the game of basketball, but i can say this keep using them and you will see how fast you move too the next level, to be a better official we must go back to the basics
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 21, 2003, 05:09pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by timharris
you made and excellent point, these terms shouldnt even be used in the game of basketball, but i can say this keep using them and you will see how fast you move too the next level, to be a better official we must go back to the basics
Tim, I think that if you do move to the next level, you might find yourself working with a whole bunch of officials that use "on the floor".

This one ain't a biggie. It's really no reason to give someone a poor evaluation, imo. Concentrate on the important things- getting the calls right, getting in and staying in the proper position, game management, etc.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 21, 2003, 05:13pm
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i have opened a can of worms

i see this has touched a few nerves, if i stepped on any toes i apologize, im sorry for wanting my guys too be the best, being good takes hardwork, currently im a ncaa baseball official and i can tell you this, if my interpreter tells me something, i best adhere to it or i will be busted back to doing pony league games on tuesday and wednesday, so being and excellent official is hardwork and sometimes you have to make changes you do not like.

[Edited by timharris on Dec 21st, 2003 at 04:45 PM]
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 21, 2003, 05:14pm
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Re: thanks basketball ref

Quote:
Originally posted by timharris
you made and excellent point, these terms shouldnt even be used in the game of basketball, but i can say this keep using them and you will see how fast you move too the next level, to be a better official we must go back to the basics
Hmmm...was this a compliment or a shot.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 21, 2003, 05:43pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by timharris
hello all,


just wanna say i have never personally met any of you guys are gals here but from the rule knowledge and rules interpretations that i have received here, i would referee a game with most of the officials here and thats a fact, thanks for all the useful information over the years you folks are the best and as long as this site is here, we all will make the game alot easier too officiate. now geting to my question during my rules interpretations clinic last wednesday, i informed the guys we will no longer use the terminology "on the floor" this has no meaning in the game of basketball, what we are really trying too say is "no shot", i was trying to point out, if you are saying, on the floor, why not say "in the air" when the airborne shooter is fouled in the air, but my problem is with some of the older veterans of the game, they have been saying this so long they dont wanna change, but i have informed them as rule interpretator and evaluator, if this term "on the floor" is used while being evaluated, points will be deducted from there evaluation. how do you fellow officials feel about this? any information will be greatly appreciated.


thanks


have a very merry christmas



timothy harris
rules interpreter
regional officials association


[Edited by timharris on Dec 21st, 2003 at 04:02 PM]
1) Please use sentences. They will make your posts easier to read.

2) As I read this, you came across as a "dictator" in announcing / enforcing the change. I'm sure this isn't what you meant to do, and it may not be what you thought you did, but if your actions in the meeting are accurately reflected in the post, that's what you did.

3) NCAA W machanics, 13.B.f, specifically allow, "On the Floor."

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Old Sun Dec 21, 2003, 05:47pm
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Re: i have opened a can of worms

Quote:
Originally posted by timharris
i see this has touched a few nerves, if i stepped on any toes i apologize, im sorry for wanting my guys too be the best, being good takes hardwork, currently im a ncaa baseball official and i can tell you this, if my interpreter tells me something, i best adhere to it i will be busted back to doing pony league games on tuesday and wednesday, so being and excellent official is hardwork and sometimes you have to make changes you do not like.
Can of worms? Touching nerves? Stepping on toes? You've completely lost me,Tim. You asked for our opinions. That's what you got. If they don't agree with yours, hey-that's too bad. It's nothing personal.

It's just my opinion that there's just one heckuva lot more things that are important on an evaluation than saying "on the floor".However,you are right that the officials in your association should listen to you if you are their interpreter. That's doesn't mean that your advice is valid for other associations and their interpreters,though.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Dec 21st, 2003 at 08:47 PM]
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 21, 2003, 06:07pm
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thanks for your comments bob

bob didnt mean too come across as a dictator, sorry if i crossd you in that manner. i was making my comment based on the federation level.
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Watch your thoughts; they become words. Watch your words; they become actions. Watch your actions, they become habits. Watch your habits, they become character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.


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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 21, 2003, 07:07pm
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Tim is right in his desire for the "ideal" of each official using proper signals and terminology. Also, the elimination of non-orthodox habits (some have become orthodox from repeated misuse) would be a refreshing improvement. However, I think he is "banging his head against a wall" in trying to force compliance.

At the meetings, remind the members of the proper mechanics and terminology. Go over a few points that guys should be aware of so they are informed of what's expected. After that, it's up to them how they proceed. If you have been up front with them about the evaluating criteria, they should have no gripes about points taken off. In reality, most will continue with the old habits when they are not being evaluated. Also, isn't it more important what the asignor(s) wants? If you don't meet his requirements then he can just stop giving future games.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 21, 2003, 07:08pm
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Re: i have opened a can of worms

Quote:
Originally posted by timharris
.....i can tell you this, if my interpreter tells me something, i best adhere to it ..........sometimes you have to make changes you do not like.

Can you give us an example of a change that you were forced to make that you did not like that compares to this one that you are suggesting/demanding?
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