Clock Improperly Starts-Throw In Spot

[Indianaref]

College has addressed this issue and requires the throw in returns to the original spot. However, in High School, the only thing I could find is an old interpretation that involves the player actually touching the ball, ending the throw in. Nothing found when the throw in never actually ends. What about if the ball actually crosses mid court before official sounded his whistle? My thought was we would go to one of the 4 spots and correct the time on clock.

[JRutledge]

Where does it say in college that the ball must go back to the original spot? I ask this question because I had a similar situation happen years ago like this, and I got different answers as to what to do.

In a high school game, just put the ball where it was touched and take some time off the clock. At most a second or maybe .3, especially with this being the visiting team that would be penalized.

Peace

[Indianaref]

Jeff, the whistle is blown dead before the ball is touched.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

Jeff, the whistle is blown dead before the ball is touched.

OK, but that is not exactly what I am asking. You said the NCAA addressed this, so where does it reference that?

Peace

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

OK, but that is not exactly what I am asking. You said the NCAA addressed this, so where does it reference that?

Peace

I am going by this post, have yet to find the rule reference Ncaa
Post #19 by Nevadaref. https://forum.officiating.com/basket...-too-soon.html

[bucky]

In this case, the official improperly started the clock. I hate to see a team penalized, or have an advantage wiped away, when an official makes a mistake.

On another note, and maybe for a separate thread...why do officials, mostly in college/NBA, have to touch each other during a conference? Is that a requirement? lol

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

I am going by this post, have yet to find the rule reference Ncaa
Post #19 by Nevadaref. https://forum.officiating.com/basket...-too-soon.html

I am not saying you are wrong, but this conversation was some years ago. Almost 20 years ago, we have had since then replay and other interpretations to deal with these situations. If the ball is touched, there has been a rule in place to address how much we take off the clock at the very least. Now, if the ball is not touched, I agree that you probably go back to the original spot. I just like references to know if that is the case. I do not believe in the NF level, there is no clear situation. People focus on definite knowledge IMO as a crutch for everything. To me this is not clearly stated, but I would likely take something off the clock and wait for a touch if there is that much time on the clock.

Peace

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

College has addressed this issue and requires the throw in returns to the original spot. However, in High School, the only thing I could find is an old interpretation that involves the player actually touching the ball, ending the throw in. Nothing found when the throw in never actually ends. What about if the ball actually crosses mid court before official sounded his whistle? My thought was we would go to one of the 4 spots and correct the time on clock.

There are NO! Let me repeat myself: There are NO! 'do overs' in NFHS and NCAA Men's/Women's Basketball Rules! End of the discussion!

This topic has been discussed ad nauseum many times in this Forum and an Advanced Search for this topic and my name will bring up every one of these discussions some of which are almost twenty years old.

MTD, Sr.

P.S.: This is not the Men's Basketball Gold Medal Game in the 1972 Summer Olympiad!

P.P.S.: Tim Cloughery is the son of Youngstown State University alum and retired ACC Coordinator of Men's Basketball Officials, John Clougherty. Go Penguins!!

[BillyMac]

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

There are NO! Let me repeat myself: There are NO! 'do overs' in NFHS and NCAA Men's/Women's Basketball Rules! End of the discussion!

This situation from 25-26 interpretations says to return ball to original throw in spot.

SITUATION 5 (Inadvertent Whistle): During a designated-spot throw-in by Team A in its frontcourt, the covering official inadvertently blows the whistle before the throw-in is: (a) completed (legally touched by another player inbounds) (b) controlled by a player on the court after it was deflected by B1. In (a), the ball is returned to Team A for a throw-in at the original designated spot using the point of interruption (POI) procedure. If, instead of an inadvertent whistle, the stoppage had resulted from another POI situation — such as a double foul or simultaneous foul during the throw-in — the same ruling would apply. Team A would retain the ball for a throw-in from the original throw-in spot. In (b), Team A maintains control of the ball and will be awarded a throw-in at one of the four designated spots nearest where the ball was located when the inadvertent whistle occurred. If, instead of an inadvertent whistle, the stoppage had resulted from another POI situation — such as a double foul or simultaneous foul— the same ruling would apply. RULING: Correct procedure. COMMENT: In any situation where play is interrupted without clear team control — whether by inadvertent whistle, double foul or simultaneous foul — officials return the ball to the team that was in control at the point of interruption. On a throwin, team control begins at disposal and continues until there is player control by either team on the court. Therefore, Team A maintains its throw-in privilege in each of these scenarios. (4-36-1; 4-36- 2a, b; 7-5-2)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

SITUATION 5 (Inadvertent Whistle): During a designated-spot throw-in by Team A in its frontcourt, the covering official inadvertently blows the whistle before the throw-in is: (a) completed (legally touched by another player inbounds) (b) controlled by a player on the court after it was deflected by B1. In (a), the ball is returned to Team A for a throw-in at the original designated spot using the point of interruption (POI) procedure. If, instead of an inadvertent whistle, the stoppage had resulted from another POI situation — such as a double foul or simultaneous foul during the throw-in — the same ruling would apply. Team A would retain the ball for a throw-in from the original throw-in spot. In (b), Team A maintains control of the ball and will be awarded a throw-in at one of the four designated spots nearest where the ball was located when the inadvertent whistle occurred. If, instead of an inadvertent whistle, the stoppage had resulted from another POI situation — such as a double foul or simultaneous foul— the same ruling would apply. RULING: Correct procedure. COMMENT: In any situation where play is interrupted without clear team control — whether by inadvertent whistle, double foul or simultaneous foul — officials return the ball to the team that was in control at the point of interruption. On a throwin, team control begins at disposal and continues until there is player control by either team on the court. Therefore, Team A maintains its throw-in privilege in each of these scenarios. (4-36-1; 4-36- 2a, b; 7-5-2)

Nice citation Indianaref. Thanks.

I'm not sure if this is a "full do over" because in (b) the clock isn't reset.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

This situation from 25-26 interpretations says to return ball to original throw in spot.

SITUATION 5 (Inadvertent Whistle): During a designated-spot throw-in by Team A in its frontcourt, the covering official inadvertently blows the whistle before the throw-in is: (a) completed (legally touched by another player inbounds) (b) controlled by a player on the court after it was deflected by B1. In (a), the ball is returned to Team A for a throw-in at the original designated spot using the point of interruption (POI) procedure. If, instead of an inadvertent whistle, the stoppage had resulted from another POI situation — such as a double foul or simultaneous foul during the throw-in — the same ruling would apply. Team A would retain the ball for a throw-in from the original throw-in spot. In (b), Team A maintains control of the ball and will be awarded a throw-in at one of the four designated spots nearest where the ball was located when the inadvertent whistle occurred. If, instead of an inadvertent whistle, the stoppage had resulted from another POI situation — such as a double foul or simultaneous foul— the same ruling would apply. RULING: Correct procedure. COMMENT: In any situation where play is interrupted without clear team control — whether by inadvertent whistle, double foul or simultaneous foul — officials return the ball to the team that was in control at the point of interruption. On a throwin, team control begins at disposal and continues until there is player control by either team on the court. Therefore, Team A maintains its throw-in privilege in each of these scenarios. (4-36-1; 4-36- 2a, b; 7-5-2)

Huh? Who wrote that? There is clearly team control by the throwing team. Poor choice of words that only confuses the situation and correct ruling.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

There is clearly team control by the throwing team. Poor choice of words that only confuses the situation and correct ruling.

Probably refers to the situations where team control only exists for the purpose of calling team control fouls on inbounds plays.

NFHS has struggled with the language regarding such (i.e., backcourt) since day one.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

There are NO! Let me repeat myself: There are NO! 'do overs' in NFHS and NCAA Men's/Women's Basketball Rules! End of the discussion!

This topic has been discussed ad nauseum many times in this Forum and an Advanced Search for this topic and my name will bring up every one of these discussions some of which are almost twenty years old.

MTD, Sr.

P.S.: This is not the Men's Basketball Gold Medal Game in the 1972 Summer Olympiad!

P.P.S.: Tim Cloughery is the son of Youngstown State University alum and retired ACC Coordinator of Men's Basketball Officials, John Clougherty. Go Penguins!!

Originally Posted by Indianaref

This situation from 25-26 interpretations says to return ball to original throw in spot.

SITUATION 5 (Inadvertent Whistle): During a designated-spot throw-in by Team A in its frontcourt, the covering official inadvertently blows the whistle before the throw-in is: (a) completed (legally touched by another player inbounds) (b) controlled by a player on the court after it was deflected by B1. In (a), the ball is returned to Team A for a throw-in at the original designated spot using the point of interruption (POI) procedure. If, instead of an inadvertent whistle, the stoppage had resulted from another POI situation — such as a double foul or simultaneous foul during the throw-in — the same ruling would apply. Team A would retain the ball for a throw-in from the original throw-in spot. In (b), Team A maintains control of the ball and will be awarded a throw-in at one of the four designated spots nearest where the ball was located when the inadvertent whistle occurred. If, instead of an inadvertent whistle, the stoppage had resulted from another POI situation — such as a double foul or simultaneous foul— the same ruling would apply. RULING: Correct procedure. COMMENT: In any situation where play is interrupted without clear team control — whether by inadvertent whistle, double foul or simultaneous foul — officials return the ball to the team that was in control at the point of interruption. On a throwin, team control begins at disposal and continues until there is player control by either team on the court. Therefore, Team A maintains its throw-in privilege in each of these scenarios. (4-36-1; 4-36- 2a, b; 7-5-2)

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Huh? Who wrote that? There is clearly team control by the throwing team. Poor choice of words that only confuses the situation and correct ruling.

👍

Not to mention, that no where in the POI Rule does it mention before the Throw-in Ends! The POI Rule only mentions the Location of the Ball at the time of the Inadvertent Whistle.

And let us not forget, the Situation in the video was not an Inadvertent Whistle.

MTD, Sr.

[Indianaref]

Here's another new case play, totally disagree with not taking at least .03 off the clock.

4.12.2 SITUATION C: With 3.9 seconds remaining in the fourth quarter, A1's throw-in pass is deflected into the air by B1. While the ball is in the air, an official inadvertently sounds their whistle. After the whistle, the game clock still shows 3.9 seconds remaining in the quarter. RULING: The clock shall remain at 3.9 seconds, with Team A awarded a throw-in at the out-of-bounds spot nearest to where the ball was deflected by B1. While the ball remains live, a loose ball always remains in control of the team whose player last had control. Team A maintained control, and it will be awarded a throw-in nearest to where the ball last was in contact with a player on the court when the whistle sounded. The officials would not have rule support to take time off the clock as no player on the court ever gained control of the ball (4-12-4, 4-36-2a, 4-42-5a).