Travel ???

[BillyMac]

https://x.com/i/status/1903979294570827813

https://twitter.com/i/status/1903979918360535167

https://twitter.com/i/status/1904004200192684471

That's a travel in my middle school games and should also be a travel in an NCAA Tournament game.

[ChuckS]

Gene S. said "he could bobble the ball all the way to the hoop" before determining "firm possession". I admit I don't know NCAA rules, but I can't believe the rules would allow a player to bobble the ball between hands to avoid having to actually dribble!

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

Gene S. said "he could bobble the ball all the way to the hoop" before determining "firm possession". I admit I don't know NCAA rules, but I can't believe the rules would allow a player to bobble the ball between hands to avoid having to actually dribble!

Just like the rules allow it in HS.

Mote that there's a difference between a "bobble" (an undefined term) and "batting the ball from one hand to another."

I did think the play was a travel when I watched it live.

[Nevadaref]

https://sports.yahoo.com/college-bas...014024424.html

[Robert Goodman]

I don't see how a player gets to carry the ball football-style in one arm like that and not be judged in possession of it.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

I don't see how a player gets to carry the ball football-style in one arm like that and not be judged in possession of it.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Note that there's a difference between a "bobble" (an undefined term) and "batting the ball from one hand to another."

NFHS 4-44: Traveling is moving a foot or feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits while holding the ball.

Is gaining an advantage by intentionally and purposely controlling the ball by "batting the ball from one hand to another" while moving one's feet considered "holding" the ball?

By purpose and intent, I say yes.

Is unintentionally bobbling and muffing the ball by "batting the ball from one hand to another" in an attempt to gain control while moving one's feet considered "holding" the ball?

By purpose and intent, I say no.

Officials can't read minds but get paid the big bucks to know the difference.

[ChuckS]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

there's a difference between a "bobble" (an undefined term) and "batting the ball from one hand to another."

I looked in the HS rules and did not find these quoted words, nor did I find any rules governing how it would be legal to bobble the ball while moving.

[bob jenkins]

"Bobble" is another word for "muff". If you have that accidental loss of (or not yet gaining) control, it's not a travel. If you intentionally control the ball while batting it in the air, the it's a travel.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

I looked in the HS rules and did not find these quoted words, nor did I find any rules governing how it would be legal to bobble the ball while moving.

NFHS 4-44: Traveling is moving a foot or feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits while holding the ball.

The problem is that the NFHS does not define "holding" in Rule 4 Definitions.

So that leaves it up to a dictionary definition along with purpose and intent and some common sense.

[BillyMac]

4.15 COMMENT: It is not possible for a player to travel during a dribble. A player is not dribbling while slapping the ball during a jump, when a pass rebounds from his/her hand, when he/she fumbles, or when he/she bats a rebound or pass away from other players who are attempting to get it. The player is not in control under these conditions. It is a dribble when a player stands still and bounces the ball. It is not a dribble when a player stands still and holds the ball and touches it to the floor once or more than once.

4.15.1 SITUATION B: A1’s throw-in pass is beyond A2. (a) A2 reaches out and slaps the ball toward A’s basket; or (b) A2 muffs the pass. In both situations. A2 then gains control and dribbles to the basket and scores. RULING: No violation in either (a) or (b).

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

I looked in the HS rules and did not find these quoted words, nor did I find any rules governing how it would be legal to bobble the ball while moving.

On the other hand, how can someone travel without player possession?

When I watched this live, I noticed the bobble. While I'm not sure it removes traveling from the play, it does affect the timing of possession and potentially the timing of the establishing of the pivot foot. In other words, it becomes a lot harder to be 100% sure you're correct.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich

On the other hand, how can someone travel without player possession?

NFHS 4-12-1: A player is in control of the ball when he/she is holding or dribbling a live ball.

Since one can't travel when dribbling, one can only travel when one has possession, or control, of the ball while holding the ball.

NFHS 4-44: Traveling is moving a foot or feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits while holding the ball.

What's holding?