The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)
-   -   Travel ??? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/106383-travel.html)

BillyMac Mon Mar 24, 2025 11:52am

Travel ???
 
https://x.com/i/status/1903979294570827813

https://twitter.com/i/status/1903979918360535167

https://twitter.com/i/status/1904004200192684471

That's a travel in my middle school games and should also be a travel in an NCAA Tournament game.

ChuckS Mon Mar 24, 2025 04:37pm

Gene S. said "he could bobble the ball all the way to the hoop" before determining "firm possession". I admit I don't know NCAA rules, but I can't believe the rules would allow a player to bobble the ball between hands to avoid having to actually dribble!

bob jenkins Mon Mar 24, 2025 05:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChuckS (Post 1053638)
Gene S. said "he could bobble the ball all the way to the hoop" before determining "firm possession". I admit I don't know NCAA rules, but I can't believe the rules would allow a player to bobble the ball between hands to avoid having to actually dribble!

Just like the rules allow it in HS.

Mote that there's a difference between a "bobble" (an undefined term) and "batting the ball from one hand to another."

I did think the play was a travel when I watched it live.

Nevadaref Tue Mar 25, 2025 01:40am

https://sports.yahoo.com/college-bas...014024424.html

Robert Goodman Tue Mar 25, 2025 07:09am

I don't see how a player gets to carry the ball football-style in one arm like that and not be judged in possession of it.

BillyMac Tue Mar 25, 2025 10:00am

Possession ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman (Post 1053641)
I don't see how a player gets to carry the ball football-style in one arm like that and not be judged in possession of it.

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.y...=Api&P=0&h=180

BillyMac Tue Mar 25, 2025 12:30pm

Holding The Ball ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1053639)
Note that there's a difference between a "bobble" (an undefined term) and "batting the ball from one hand to another."

NFHS 4-44: Traveling is moving a foot or feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits while holding the ball.

Is gaining an advantage by intentionally and purposely controlling the ball by "batting the ball from one hand to another" while moving one's feet considered "holding" the ball?

By purpose and intent, I say yes.

Is unintentionally bobbling and muffing the ball by "batting the ball from one hand to another" in an attempt to gain control while moving one's feet considered "holding" the ball?

By purpose and intent, I say no.

Officials can't read minds but get paid the big bucks to know the difference.

ChuckS Tue Mar 25, 2025 05:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1053639)
there's a difference between a "bobble" (an undefined term) and "batting the ball from one hand to another."

I looked in the HS rules and did not find these quoted words, nor did I find any rules governing how it would be legal to bobble the ball while moving.

bob jenkins Tue Mar 25, 2025 09:58pm

"Bobble" is another word for "muff". If you have that accidental loss of (or not yet gaining) control, it's not a travel. If you intentionally control the ball while batting it in the air, the it's a travel.

BillyMac Wed Mar 26, 2025 08:36am

Holding ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ChuckS (Post 1053644)
I looked in the HS rules and did not find these quoted words, nor did I find any rules governing how it would be legal to bobble the ball while moving.

NFHS 4-44: Traveling is moving a foot or feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits while holding the ball.

The problem is that the NFHS does not define "holding" in Rule 4 Definitions.

So that leaves it up to a dictionary definition along with purpose and intent and some common sense.

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.O...=Api&P=0&h=180

BillyMac Wed Mar 26, 2025 08:53am

Muffs ...
 
4.15 COMMENT: It is not possible for a player to travel during a dribble. A player is not dribbling while slapping the ball during a jump, when a pass rebounds from his/her hand, when he/she fumbles, or when he/she bats a rebound or pass away from other players who are attempting to get it. The player is not in control under these conditions. It is a dribble when a player stands still and bounces the ball. It is not a dribble when a player stands still and holds the ball and touches it to the floor once or more than once.

4.15.1 SITUATION B: A1’s throw-in pass is beyond A2. (a) A2 reaches out and slaps the ball toward A’s basket; or (b) A2 muffs the pass. In both situations. A2 then gains control and dribbles to the basket and scores. RULING: No violation in either (a) or (b).

Rich Wed Mar 26, 2025 01:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChuckS (Post 1053644)
I looked in the HS rules and did not find these quoted words, nor did I find any rules governing how it would be legal to bobble the ball while moving.

On the other hand, how can someone travel without player possession?

When I watched this live, I noticed the bobble. While I'm not sure it removes traveling from the play, it does affect the timing of possession and potentially the timing of the establishing of the pivot foot. In other words, it becomes a lot harder to be 100% sure you're correct.

BillyMac Thu Mar 27, 2025 10:01am

Possession, Control, Holding ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 1053648)
On the other hand, how can someone travel without player possession?

NFHS 4-12-1: A player is in control of the ball when he/she is holding or dribbling a live ball.

Since one can't travel when dribbling, one can only travel when one has possession, or control, of the ball while holding the ball.

NFHS 4-44: Traveling is moving a foot or feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits while holding the ball.

What's holding?

https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.o...=Api&P=0&h=180

ChuckS Fri Mar 28, 2025 10:16am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1053654)

What's holding?

No definition for HOLDING...but we have a definition for RULE. Very helpful.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:13pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1