Disqualification Substitutes ...

[SNIPERBBB]

Why do you need a rule here? We don't skip straight to getting subs before any other to dead ball business that we are doing. They're last priority.

Make report
Go through DQ process if needed
Grant TO if requested
Beckon Subs
Resume Play.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

Why do you need a rule here? We don't skip straight to getting subs before any other to dead ball business that we are doing.

Ignore this?

2003-04 NFHS Points of Emphasis
5) Substituting Player - Disqualifications
H) If a substitute from the non-offending team or a substitute for the offending team for someone other than the disqualified player reports to the scorer during the wait for the required substitute, they may enter the game.

Please give me a simple citation (rule or mechanic) that says otherwise.

Try to avoid citing 2020-21 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretation Situation 10 due to the added complexity of a timeout request.

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Ignore this?

2003-04 NFHS Points of Emphasis
5) Substituting Player - Disqualifications
H) If a substitute from the non-offending team or a substitute for the offending team for someone other than the disqualified player reports to the scorer during the wait for the required substitute, they may enter the game.

Please give me a simple citation (rule or mechanic) that says otherwise.

Try to avoid citing 2020-21 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretation Situation 10 due to the added complexity of a timeout request.

Sure but note that the rule says "may" you don't have to bring them in at that time. You can do what you want as long as your crew isn't distracted.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

Sure but note that the rule says "may" you don't have to bring them in at that time.

Would love to see a simple citation that says that you don't have to bring them in at that time, that it's "optional".

Again, try to avoid citing 2020-21 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretation Situation 10 due to the added complexity of a timeout request.

I'm really starting to believe that what I used to think was an actual rule was, in reality, a local "best practice" (always wear black underpants, always carry a second whistle, always carry a pin in your jacket pocket) to ensure that the disqualified player was replaced in a correct, organized, and timely manner.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Would love to see a simple citation that says that you don't have to bring them in at that time, that it's "optional".

Again, try to avoid citing 2020-21 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretation Situation 10 due to the added complexity of a timeout request.

I'm really starting to believe that what I used to think was an actual rule was, in reality, a local "best practice" (always wear black underpants, always carry a second whistle, always carry a pin in your jacket pocket) to ensure that the disqualified player was replaced in a correct, organized, and timely manner.

It wasn't a unique local practice. It was common sense application that most of us adhered to.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

It wasn't a unique local practice. It was common sense application that most of us adhered to.

By the responses on two recent threads, I figured such.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by sniperbbb

why do you need a rule here? We don't skip straight to getting subs before any other to dead ball business that we are doing. They're last priority.

Make report
go through dq process if needed
grant to if requested
beckon subs
resume play.

👍 What I said in my original comment.

[BillyMac]

26) B-1 fouls A-1, committing their fifth personal foul. While waiting for B-1’s replacement, A-6 and A-7 approach the table to enter the game. The official denies their entry, stating that A-6 and A-7 must wait and enter with B-1’s replacement. Was the official correct?

IAABO answer is no.

I've been researching this question and answer for two months and may have finally gotten some closure (at least from IAABO).

Here's the answer I got from my local interpreter, also the Connecticut state interpreter, and also the assistant chair of the IAABO international Rules Examination Committee.

The answer is no. All substitutes that are at the table and ready to go in may enter the game before the replacement player for B-1. However, we generally have officials ensure that the replacement player for B-1 is our primary focus. Get the replacement player checked in, as well as the substitutes for either team.

I could not find anything to back up my yes answer (other than a single 2020-21 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretation Situation 10, poorly worded and complicated by a timeout request).

And the 2003-04 NFHS Point of Emphasis clearly tells us than if a substitute other than the replacement reports to the scorer during the wait for the required substitute they may enter the game.

It appears that no substitutes until a replacement is made is not an actual rule or mechanic, but a “best practice” to ensure that the replacement was made in a proper, correct, organized, and timely manner.

In almost all cases (except after the warning horn during a time out, or between multiple free throws) we can’t deny an eligible (sat a tick, not disqualified, etc.) substitution during a dead ball stopped clock situation, even after a live ball whistle to prevent a substitute from entering when they shouldn't come in.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

BillyMac out.

[SNIPERBBB]

We arent denying a sub entry....Theyre still coming in in when theyre allowed to.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

We aren't denying a sub entry .... They're still coming in in when they're allowed to.

Whenever the official doesn't beckon, that official is denying entry (at that time).

With few (see above) exceptions (and disqualification is not one of the exceptions) we can’t deny an eligible (see above) substitution during any dead ball stopped clock situation.

3-3-1-D: If entry is at any time other than between quarters, and a substitute who is entitled and ready to enter reports to the scorer, the scorer must use a sounding device or game horn, if, or as soon as, the ball is dead and the clock is stopped.

[SNIPERBBB]

So if we don't beckon Subs night . millisecond after the.bsll is dead we're denying the subs?

The horn can blow as much as it wants but we'll beckon them when we're ready to do so.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

The horn can blow as much as it wants but we'll beckon them when we're ready to do so.

You would force a substitute, who had already reported to the table (maybe quite a while ago), and was already sitting on the X (maybe quite a while ago), to just sit there for an additional fifteen seconds (15 thousand milliseconds) with no NFHS rule basis to back you up?

3-3-1-D: If entry is at any time other than between quarters, and a substitute who is entitled and ready to enter reports to the scorer, the scorer must use a sounding device or game horn, if, or as soon as, the ball is dead and the clock is stopped.

I do understand that this may be a perfectly acceptable local, state, regional, national, or international custom or "best practice", but it doesn't have any basis in the current NFHS rulebook.

In fact, in a real game situation, I would probably do it myself (it's perfectly acceptable in my little corner of Connecticut), especially if there was any indication of confusion with the table or the coach, but I wouldn't answer such on a written test (as I did, getting it wrong).

Remember, this entire thread, as well as most of a previous thread, was all about a written test question and answer, not a real game.

We have some good officials who, after a live ball whistle to prevent a substitute from entering when they shouldn't come in, then refuse to beckon him in, with no rule basis to back them.

That's why I will try a live ball "stop sign" and an oral "Stay out" before I sound my whistle to prevent a technical foul, because once the ball is dead and the clock is stopped, by rule, I have to beckon him in.

[Raymond]

Or you can say, I'll let you in as soon as we finish this business.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

In fact, in a real game situation, I would probably do it myself (it's perfectly acceptable in my little corner of Connecticut), especially if there was any indication of confusion with the table or the coach ...

Originally Posted by Raymond

I'll let you in as soon as we finish this business.

Exactly.

Bachman-Turner Overdrive - Takin' Care Of Business (1974)

https://youtu.be/0y-_WGjZgD8?feature=shared

[BillyMac]

One thing that I hate about disqualifications are coaches who send the replacement the table and X (not noted by the calling official) as soon as one calls the fifth foul on a player, before the foul is actually reported.

The table informs the official that it's the player's fifth foul, you inform the head coach and the coach tells you, "He already reported", but the tone of his voice actually says, "He already reported ass**le".