Team Control Player Control Difference ...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Question: What is the practical difference between a team control foul and a player control foul? Answer: Nothing.

Agree. Practical was poor word choice.

Bottom line: All player control fouls are not necessarily also team control fouls.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree. Practical was poor word choice.

Bottom line: All player control fouls are not necessarily also team control fouls.

and vice versa.

Used to be a difference, but now in both the throw-in and FT sections the phrases "PC foul" and TC foul" are used one right after the other to show that they have the same penalty.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

... they have the same penalty.

No free throws.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

... and vice versa.

All team control fouls are not necessarily also player control fouls.

4-19-7: A team-control foul is a common foul committed ... by a member of the throw-in team from the start of the throw-in until player control is obtained inbounds.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

All team control fouls are not necessarily also player control fouls.

4-19-7: A team-control foul is a common foul committed ... by a member of the throw-in team from the start of the throw-in until player control is obtained inbounds.

... and, of course, the most common type of team control foul we call, illegal screens.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

the difference used to be that a goal could be scored on a player control foul if the try had been released prior to contact and the foul was therefore by an airborne shooter,

Originally Posted by BillyMac

"Count the basket" player control foul on one end, then walk down to the other end to shoot bonus free throws.

I'm pretty sure that when I started working HS ball, we were using the current player control foul rule. So no FT, even the try had been released by the shooter. But in NCAA, we still used the old rule. So having said that. . .

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but the whole reason that you could shoot the FTs in this situation is that it was NOT a player control foul. Once the shooter released the ball, there was no player control. So it was a charge in a loose-ball situation. But not a player control foul.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I'm pretty sure that when I started working HS ball, we were using the current player control foul rule. So no FT, even the try had been released by the shooter. But in NCAA, we still used the old rule. So having said that. . .

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but the whole reason that you could shoot the FTs in this situation is that it was NOT a player control foul. Once the shooter released the ball, there was no player control. So it was a charge in a loose-ball situation. But not a player control foul.

I do not recall that rule. I do recall that if A2 set an illegal screen, B could shoot FTs if B was in the bonus.

They could have combined the categories when they went to the "no FTs for a TC foul" rule a dozen or so years ago.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

They could have combined the categories when they went to the "no FTs for a TC foul" rule a dozen or so years ago.

It was definitely much more than a dozen years ago when we stopped (NFHS) shooting bonus free throws (down on the other end of the court) for "charges" in which the ball had already been released (where the basket could actually count if the ball went in the basket).

It was way back in ancient times, possibly thirty-plus, maybe thirty-five-plus, years ago, way back in the Holocene geological epoch.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

... the try had been released by the shooter ... the whole reason that you could shoot the FTs in this situation is that it was NOT a player control foul. Once the shooter released the ball, there was no player control. So it was a charge in a loose-ball situation. But not a player control foul.

Bingo.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree. Practical was poor word choice.

Bottom line: All player control fouls are not necessarily also team control fouls.

Give me an example when a PCF is not TCF?

MTD, Sr.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Give me an example when a PCF is not TCF?

MTD, Sr.

Airborne shooter.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Give me an example when a PCF is not TCF?

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Airborne shooter ...

... who has released the ball for a try.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... who has released the ball for a try.

Isn't that redundant?

Can you give an example of an Airborne Shooter who has not released the ball? (Hint: The answer is "no".)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Can you give an example of an Airborne Shooter who has not released the ball?

A ball handler becomes airborne (ball comes to rest in the player’s hands) and starts his continuous trying motion. The trying motion includes arm, foot or body movements used by the player when throwing the ball at his basket. All of this before the ball is released on a try. The player becomes an airborne shooter when both feet have left the floor and are off the ground.

Maybe he didn't release the ball because an opponent "clamped down" on his wrist?

Maybe he quite doesn't fit the official definition (ball released) of a NFHS "airborne shooter", but he certainly is airborne, and he certainly is in the act of shooting, thus he's a generic airborne shooter.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

A ball handler becomes airborne (ball comes to rest in the player’s hands) and starts his continuous trying motion. The trying motion includes arm, foot or body movements used by the player when throwing the ball at his basket. All of this before the ball is released on a try. The player becomes an airborne shooter when both feet have left the floor and are off the ground.

He's a shooter, and he's airborne, but he's not an airborne shooter.

4-1-1:An airborne shooter is a player who has released the ball on a try for a goal or has tapped the ball and has not returned to the floor.

Let's just say that he is a shooter that's airborne.