The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #31 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 09, 2023, 11:40am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,952
Old Timers ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
"How can an almost twenty year old case play that only appeared for a single year in the casebook and is no longer in the casebook be relevant to officials who have been officiating less than twenty years?".
Of course, a recent National Association of Sports Officials survey tells us that the average age of a basketball official is 56 year old, so many of us are aware of this almost twenty year old casebook play, but eventually many of us will retire, or die, the "Circle of Life".
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Nov 09, 2023 at 02:02pm.
Reply With Quote
  #32 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 09, 2023, 02:08pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 14,843
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I agree with you, but over the years we have a few Forum members who do not agree with this "one and done" but important caseplay because it's no longer in the casebook.

Their rationale (not mine) is often along the lines of, "How can an almost twenty year old case play that only appeared for a single year in the casebook and is no longer in the casebook be relevant to officials who have been officiating less than twenty years?".

"How many interpreters/trainers bring up this casebook play as a part of rookie instruction?".

"How can such an official explain this situation to a coach without the benefit of pointing it out in a casebook?".

"Sorry coach, I can't show you the play in the casebook but just go on the internet to the Official Basketball Forum and search for 2004-05 NFHS Casebook: 10.6.1 Situation E".

How many officials still have a 2004-05 NFHS Casebook (I bet that Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. has it in his attic library)? And how many officials carry around a 2004-05 NFHS Casebook in their bag (I certainly don't)?

My answer: While the caseplay may have vanished, the rules behind it are still in the rule book and there have been no relevant rule changes, or interpretation changes, to invalidate it.

Of course, we have this:



However, as far as I know, only IAABO members had access to this interview.

Try explaining that to a NFHS official, or to a young IAABO official, or to a coach "third hand".

"Well, some anonymous official (if one can believe that) who goes by the username BillyMac, from a little corner of Connecticut (if one can believe that), in an internet chat room says ..."

As President Abraham Lincoln said, "Don't believe everything one sees on the internet".
I'm confused as to how this response is related to what I just posted. The combination of the 3 rules you posted make it clear how to differentiate between tripping and being tripped. How is a new official affected by the missing case play?
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #33 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 09, 2023, 02:28pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,952
Being Tripped ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
I'm confused as to how this response is related to what I just posted ...
Because over the years, some on the Forum have disagreed with you (I agree with you) and believe that this exact case play situation is always a "being tripped" (blocking) foul, giving rationales (above) for why the case play in question should be ignored.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Nov 10, 2023 at 02:33pm.
Reply With Quote
  #34 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 09, 2023, 04:39pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 14,843
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Because over the years, some on the Forum have disagreed with you (but not me) and believe that this exact case play situation is always a "being tripped" (blocking) foul, giving rationales (above) for why the case play in question should be ignored.
Whether or not everyone agrees, that still doesn't change the fact that those three rules in combination tell us there is a difference between a trip and being tripped. Therefore I don't see why you keep on bringing up the new official thing.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #35 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 09, 2023, 06:43pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Rockville,MD
Posts: 1,140
How is any of this germane to throw-in administration?
Reply With Quote
  #36 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 10, 2023, 09:58am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,952
Vanishing ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
How is any of this germane to throw-in administration?
Vanishing caseplays and/or one and done annual interpretations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
It is my hope that 2023-24 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations Situation 5, in it's entirety (original throwin spot and time consumed), ends up "permanently" in the "body" of the NFHS Casebook.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Nov 10, 2023 at 10:23am.
Reply With Quote
  #37 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 10, 2023, 10:22am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,952
Rationale ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Therefore I don't see why you keep on bringing up the new official thing.
I don't. Those that disagree with, and ignore, the vanished caseplay do, despite the fact that the three rules haven't changed since the caseplay was published and then vanished.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #38 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 11, 2023, 01:41pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 14,843
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I don't. Those that disagree with, and ignore, the vanished caseplay do, despite the fact that the three rules haven't changed since the caseplay was published and then vanished.
That still doesn't mean newer officials can't properly adjudicate the play based on published rules, which is what you were claiming up thread.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #39 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 11, 2023, 06:22pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,952
Classic Hearsay ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
That still doesn't mean newer officials can't properly adjudicate the play based on published rules, which is what you were claiming up thread.
No, it was other Forum members who were claiming such in the past, possibly some who may no longer be active Forum members.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #40 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 13, 2023, 10:09am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,472
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
No, it was other Forum members who were claiming such in the past, possibly some who may no longer be active Forum members.
What other forum members? It is the same 5 of us talking over and over again. People have gone to other places to discuss things partially because we get off on the rails about things that have nothing to do with the original conversation. This is a great example of that fact.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #41 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 13, 2023, 11:17am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,952
One And Done ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
What other forum members?
While I don't remember them by name, I do remember their rationale for ignoring the interpretation of this one and done casebook play.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #42 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 13, 2023, 06:38pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 14,843
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
While I don't remember them by name, I do remember their rationale for ignoring the interpretation of this one and done casebook play.
Why are you speaking for them? You're the one who said that new officials wouldn't be able to figure out how to rule such a play. You posted the three rules that give all the guidance needed. You are the only one in this thread who posted anything about newcomers not being able to figure it out based on the current rules published.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #43 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 13, 2023, 09:36pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SE Ohio
Posts: 1,199
I wouldnt worry about this until next year...

I'm still hoping they actually codify the neck/head contact with a swinging elbow one of these decades.
Reply With Quote
  #44 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 14, 2023, 11:44am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,472
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB View Post
I wouldnt worry about this until next year...

I'm still hoping they actually codify the neck/head contact with a swinging elbow one of these decades.
I think they did that already. Saying that contact above the shoulders was not automatically anything. You could judge it as something intentional or flagrant, but not a requirement if contact takes place. Case book 9.13.1 and 9.13.2 covers this to some extent.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #45 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 14, 2023, 11:46am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,472
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
While I don't remember them by name, I do remember their rationale for ignoring the interpretation of this one and done casebook play.
Let them speak for themselves. They are not bothering us with this silliness. If they have an issue then they can ask. For one new people do not know the difference unless someone points out to them the difference. I did not know the rules before me that well and never worried about them. I only worried about the application of the rule that was in front of me. Stop trying to speak for people that are not raising an issue. Trust me, there are plenty of people who speak on issues they do not understand. These are not children.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
3 man free throw administration ballgame99 Basketball 3 Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:01pm
Free throw administration Jburt Basketball 26 Fri Oct 03, 2008 02:51pm
Free throw administration joencali Basketball 3 Mon Mar 13, 2006 06:59pm
Throw in Administration lds7199 Basketball 1 Sat Jan 08, 2005 11:03am
free throw administration Todd VandenAkker Basketball 16 Wed Feb 02, 2000 05:12pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:15am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1