does 10 second count not start over in D1 any more?

[thedewed]

KU OSU yesterday, OSU throws in from backcourt, KU deflected it out in backcourt so OSU throws it in again at 1049, and Sirmons calls backcourt at 1043? No one questions? New rule? It was 6 seconds!

[BillyMac]

I know very little about NCAA ten second rules or shot clock rules (I know more about rocket science), but could this have been caused by confusion in using the shot clock rather than a visible count to "count" ten seconds?

If so, we could have the same confusion in a NFHS game with shot clock.

[thedewed]

that is what happened, but when it is a 6 second call, how the whole gym doesn't know what happened is beyond me.

[JRutledge]

Need more context. What was the start of the play? Was this in the first or second half? There is some stuff missing to know what was ruled on.

Basically, an out-of-bounds violation where the team with the ball retains possession in their backcourt, the 10-second clock does not start over. They must get it across at 20 seconds on the shot clock. If the ball was in the FC, if the ball is thrown to the BC, then there is a new 10-second count. All based on what the read of the shot clock says at the time. They can get a new timeout if there is a timeout called, or an official's timeout or a stoppage based on the official decision.

So to really answer we would have to know how the play started. That is key to seeing if it was just a mistake or properly adjudicated.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... an out-of-bounds violation where the team with the ball retains possession in their backcourt, the 10-second clock does not start over.

Thanks JRutledge.

I told everybody that I know more about rocket science than NCAA ten second rules.

[JRutledge]

Just went back an saw this play.

There was an out-of-bounds violation in the BC that Oklahoma State Retained the ball in their BC. The shot clock said 25 seconds. They have until 20 to get it across as I said the shot clock never reset and there is a not a new 10-second count. They had 5 seconds.

Now not sure how well the crew communicated that to the players or the team. And maybe the player did not know the rule or did not realize they had to get it across (which they often don't) in 5 seconds.

But they got the rule right. And the broadcast went away from the floor and was doing some graphics, so it was not clear what communication was done or not done. Usually, talk about this in my pre-games (I am nowhere near these guys' levels BTW) at the small college level and even yesterday we talked about this situation when I worked. We said how we need to make it clear to everyone and each other if this happens when the violation can happen, even when it does not normally start at 30. You could have had a timeout at 25 and then the team has until 15 to get it across and usually there is still confusion on the teams or they are not aware the time changed.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... You could have had a timeout at 25 and then the team has until 15 to get it across and usually there is still confusion on the teams or they are not aware the time changed.

So in college, a team that struggles against a press to get the ball over the division line in ten seconds can request a timeout and get the full ten seconds after the subsequent backcourt inbound (and the shot clock stays at whatever it was)?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I know very little about NCAA ten second rules or shot clock rules (I know more about rocket science), but could this have been caused by confusion in using the shot clock rather than a visible count to "count" ten seconds?

If so, we could have the same confusion in a NFHS game with shot clock.

We are not being giving enough information to have an opinion on this.

The 10 second count has been the same for NCAA men's for quite a while now. There's no confusion in regards to using the shot clock.

Since you have no idea, I'm not sure why you're throwing stuff up against the wall.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Since you have no idea, I'm not sure why you're throwing stuff up against the wall.

I opined (with a question mark, the word "could", and a declaration about my lack of NCAA rules knowledge) because of this.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... we could have the same confusion in a NFHS game with shot clock.

Shot clock is coming to Connecticut next year.

We have to be prepared to do some mental subtraction.

Twenty-five will not always be the "magic number".

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I opined because of this.



Shot clock is coming to Connecticut next year.

We have to be prepared to do some mental subtraction.

Twenty-five will not always be the "magic number".

We've already had multiple conversations about the shot clock and the fact that the NCAA has specific rules about it and the NFHS so far has not been very detail oriented. So you throwing stuff up against the wall now is not going to help you next year.

The only thing that's going to help you next year is either the NFHS updating its rules or your state publishing something specific.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

... the shot clock and the fact that the NCAA has specific rules about it and the NFHS so far has not been very detail oriented ... The only thing that's going to help you next year is either the NFHS updating its rules or your state publishing something specific.

Agree. I certainly hope that my state association and state board clarify exactly how were going to handle certain shot clock situations.

However, my main interest in this thread was in regard to the NCAA ten second rule and it's "continuation" in some situations (that I had absolutely no knowledge of before JRutledge's first post this thread) where we would always restart it in high school.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... might help me to understand the reasoning of an irate and confused high school coach who sees one rule on television and another in my game.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Raymond

We've already had multiple conversations about the shot clock and the fact that the NCAA has specific rules about it and the NFHS so far has not been very detail oriented. So you throwing stuff up against the wall now is not going to help you next year.

The only thing that's going to help you next year is either the NFHS updating its rules or your state publishing something specific.

I am going to disagree a little here. I think the NF has given more information on the guidelines for this than just about every other situation I can think of. They have had publications that state how other levels operate and how they intend to operate. They made it pretty clear they were not adopting some rules the NCAA had in place. And saying that a new 10-second count is one of them. Referee Magazine had a great article about the differences in Men's college and NF and even the NBA. Things like rebounds by the offense to a backcourt out of bounds after a ball hits the rim. I cannot complain hardly one bit about the information the NF put out there in this specific situation. They did well IMO.

NF Shot Clock Guidelines

Peace