when to start 10 second count

[BEAREF]

This is from another forum...I'd like to see what others think. Rules citations will be appreciated.

What’s your ruling on this?

A1 is dribbling in his frontcourt and B1 deflects the ball into the backcourt. The ball (a) hits the floor in A’s backcourt (b) B1 then muffs it, (c) then A1 muffs it (still in the backcourt) (d) and then A2 gains possession deep in the backcourt. The question is when does the 10 second count begin? After a, b, c or d?

[jdw3018]

The answer is (a) and it was discussed here just yesterday. You can search for the thread if you'd like to find it.

[Splute]

While team control still remains with A (since B did not gain possession), I would not start the 10 sec count until "d", when A2 has possession again in their backcourt.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Splute

While team control still remains with A (since B did not gain possession), I would not start the 10 sec count until "d", when A2 has possession again in their backcourt.

You shoulda read the other thread......

No loss of team control by A. The count starts as soon as the ball has backcourt status....ergo-(a)

[Splute]

Interesting JDW3018, I will begin researching as well.

[RookieDude]

Let me tag along on this thread if I may...

Just some things to think about:

When would you start your backcourt count on a throw-in when the player lets the ball roll along the court (in the backcourt) so as not to start the clock?

What if the ball just rested there...how long could the ball rest there before you chopped the clock or started a count?

[Splute]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You shoulda read the other thread......

No loss of team control by A. The count starts as soon as the ball has backcourt status....ergo-(a)

Yep, havent been on alot lately. Let me go do some reading.

[Hartsy]

When is team control first established in the backcourt? Go with D. A team can not be in continous control of the ball in their backcourt for more than 10 seconds. Rule 9-8.

But then again, it seems that team control begins in backcourt as soon as the ball gains backcourt status. So A is valid, and it happens first, so I can see going with that.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

Let me tag along on this thread if I may...

Just some things to think about:

1. When would you start your backcourt count on a throw-in when the player lets the ball roll along the court (in the backcourt) so as not to start the clock?

2. What if the ball just rested there...how long could the ball rest there before you chopped the clock or started a count?

1. When team control is established by A in the backcourt - when an A player first controls the ball.
2. The clock starts when the ball is legally touched inbounds, so not until that happens. The 10 second backcourt count starts when A has control in the backcourt, so not until that happens.

[Splute]

Okay... it is true. JDW nailed it. Good job!! By rule Team A retains control (that was not an issue) but it does not say that Team A must have possession, which is where the misconception is. By rule Team A can not have Team control in their backcourt for more than 10 secs... That is what you have when the ball touches Team A's BC. Got it. thx

[Hartsy]

... so Team A has control, so during this loose ball situation, any foul on an A player is a Team control foul? I would venture to say that I've never seen a Team Control Foul called when players are scrambling for a ball.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Hartsy

... so Team A has control, so during this loose ball situation, any foul on an A player is a Team control foul? I would venture to say that I've never seen a Team Control Foul called when players are scrambling for a ball.

Yes, a foul during this "loose ball" would be a TC Foul on any player from A. Several people have argued that the NFHS should institute a "loose ball foul" rule for this scenario, but I don't see that happening.

I've called a TC foul in this type of situation many times.

[BEAREF]

Or a time out being granted when a ball is being passed between teammates

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by BEAREF

Or a time out being granted when a ball is being passed between teammates

Not sure who you're replying to, BEAREF, but a TO during a live ball in play may only legally be granted to a team whose player has player control. Team control alone does not give a team the right to be granted a TO.

[Hartsy]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Yes, a foul during this "loose ball" would be a TC Foul on any player from A. Several people have argued that the NFHS should institute a "loose ball foul" rule for this scenario, but I don't see that happening.

I've called a TC foul in this type of situation many times.

Very interesting. I'll keep my eyes out for this.

So, if B1 deflects a pass into the backcourt and has a few steps on A1 and a potential layup, but A1 in his haste to catch up, bumps B1 to the floor, it is a Team Control Foul, thus no free throws if in the bonus. Lets hope I have a very understanding Coach B if that layup could have sealed a win.