Dead ball technical- High School rules questioin

[Raymond]

Can you please tell us what game it was so we can possibly pull up the play?

[stewcall]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Can you please tell us what game it was so we can possibly pull up the play?

I wish I could remember the game I was watching, but you good folks answered my question. Yes I too would have just told the teams to "cut it out" before administering the throw-in, but the crew did not. It was a "bang-bang" play, but not simultaneous.
So the answer in High school---2 separate fouls administered in the order that they occurred. The fact that the ball was not handed (bounced) to the player made the play and the call interesting
Stew in Va

[BillyMac]

https://forum.officiating.com/basket...ml#post1047027

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Had something similar a few years ago, but the hold (an arm grab) was before I had handed the ball to the inbounder to start a period. Surprised me and I sounded my whistle. Ended up calling it a dead ball intentional technical foul. Not my finest hour. Should have just gone inadvertent whistle, told the player to, "Knock it off", and moved on.

https://forum.officiating.com/basket...ml#post1041911

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I got caught off guard this week. Not my finest hour.

I'm the referee. Before throwin to start third period, after my period starting whistle, there's a surprise (not the good kind), B2 grabs and holds A2 by the arm, right in front of me. Easy call. I instinctively sound my whistle, fist in the air, and only then realize that I still have the ball (not yet at the disposal of A1).

As I take a step toward the table, I only then realize that this is a dead ball foul and should be reported as a technical foul. As I take a second step toward the table, I only then realize that as a dead ball contact foul it must be either intentional or flagrant. I report it as an intentional technical foul (even though I probably wouldn't call it intentional if it had occurred a few seconds later after the ball was at the disposal of A1). Team B coach politely questioned the technical aspect (free throws by any opposing player) that I was able to explain because the ball was dead.

Two free throws by any player on Team A, and then the ball. Only then do I realize that the throwin is now no longer an alternating possession throwin but a result of the technical foul, so I tell the table to not switch the arrow.

I was pretty sure about the penalties, so I didn't bother to discus it with my partner (in hindsight, I wish I had, he would have probably talked me out of "making the easy look difficult").

In hindsight, after sounding my whistle, fist in the air, I probably should have just yelled at B2 to cut it out (admitting to myself that the contact was probably not intentional), called it an inadvertent whistle, and played on with the alternating possession throwin to start the third period.

[BillyMac]

Pushing the envelope for the good of the cause.

4-19-3-B: An intentional foul is a personal or technical foul that may or may not be premeditated and is not based solely on the severity of the act. Intentional fouls include, but are not limited to: Contact away from the ball with an opponent who is clearly not involved with a play.

With the official holding the ball, is there an actual play occurring?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Pushing the envelope for the good of the cause.

4-19-3-B: An intentional foul is a personal or technical foul that may or may not be premeditated and is not based solely on the severity of the act. Intentional fouls include, but are not limited to: Contact away from the ball with an opponent who is clearly not involved with a play.

With the official holding the ball, is there an actual play occurring?

I don't understand your question?


"include, but are not limited to"

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I don't understand your question?

Agree. Sorry, just thinking, and spit-balling, out loud.

During the time period before a throwin, while the official still has the ball in his hands before disposal, can a "simple" hold by a defender in any way be considered to be contact away from the ball with an opponent who is clearly not involved with a play, and thus, in any way be considered to be an intentional foul? The defender is clearly not involved with a play, because there is no play occurring at the time of the contact.

By "simple" hold I mean that the defender doesn't grab a jersey, push from behind, or bear hug the offensive player.

How about if one pushes the "not limited to" aspect of the definition?

When I picture various types of intentional fouls, I don't picture this as being one, but by rule ... dead ball contact ... not involved with a play ... yada, yada, yada?

I got away with this in my non-consequential play above. Was able to bamboozle a young, inexperienced coach with "rule language". Still left a bad taste in my mouth. I would have hated to have called this in a "big" consequential play and have had to explain it to my assigner. My assigner is not one to be bamboozled and distracted by shiny object "rule language".

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree. Sorry, just thinking, and spit-balling, out loud.



During the time period before a throwin, while the official still has the ball in his hands before disposal, can a "simple" hold by a defender in any way be considered to be contact away from the ball with an opponent who is clearly not involved with a play, and thus, in any way be considered to be an intentional foul? How about if one pushes the "not limited to" aspect of the definition?



By "simple" hold I mean that the defender doesn't grab a jersey, push from behind, or bear hug the offensive player.

Read this somewhere.

...told the player to, "Knock it off", and moved on...

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk