Dead ball technical- High School rules questioin

[BillyMac]

Pushing the envelope for the good of the cause.

4-19-3-B: An intentional foul is a personal or technical foul that may or may not be premeditated and is not based solely on the severity of the act. Intentional fouls include, but are not limited to: Contact away from the ball with an opponent who is clearly not involved with a play.

With the official holding the ball, is there an actual play occurring?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Pushing the envelope for the good of the cause.

4-19-3-B: An intentional foul is a personal or technical foul that may or may not be premeditated and is not based solely on the severity of the act. Intentional fouls include, but are not limited to: Contact away from the ball with an opponent who is clearly not involved with a play.

With the official holding the ball, is there an actual play occurring?

I don't understand your question?


"include, but are not limited to"

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I don't understand your question?

Agree. Sorry, just thinking, and spit-balling, out loud.

During the time period before a throwin, while the official still has the ball in his hands before disposal, can a "simple" hold by a defender in any way be considered to be contact away from the ball with an opponent who is clearly not involved with a play, and thus, in any way be considered to be an intentional foul? The defender is clearly not involved with a play, because there is no play occurring at the time of the contact.

By "simple" hold I mean that the defender doesn't grab a jersey, push from behind, or bear hug the offensive player.

How about if one pushes the "not limited to" aspect of the definition?

When I picture various types of intentional fouls, I don't picture this as being one, but by rule ... dead ball contact ... not involved with a play ... yada, yada, yada?

I got away with this in my non-consequential play above. Was able to bamboozle a young, inexperienced coach with "rule language". Still left a bad taste in my mouth. I would have hated to have called this in a "big" consequential play and have had to explain it to my assigner. My assigner is not one to be bamboozled and distracted by shiny object "rule language".

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree. Sorry, just thinking, and spit-balling, out loud.



During the time period before a throwin, while the official still has the ball in his hands before disposal, can a "simple" hold by a defender in any way be considered to be contact away from the ball with an opponent who is clearly not involved with a play, and thus, in any way be considered to be an intentional foul? How about if one pushes the "not limited to" aspect of the definition?



By "simple" hold I mean that the defender doesn't grab a jersey, push from behind, or bear hug the offensive player.

Read this somewhere.

...told the player to, "Knock it off", and moved on...

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Read this somewhere.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Should have just gone inadvertent whistle, told the player to, "Knock it off", and moved on.

Sounds like a wise man.

Probably handsome as well.

[bob jenkins]

Here's an NCAAW video on I and DQ fouls, fwiw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H39tXru2zBU

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Here's an NCAAW video on I and DQ fouls ...

Thanks bob jenkins. Nice video. Even helpful to high school guys like me.

One video play reminded me that I should point out that in my dead ball "simple" hold play above, there was no reason for the defender to stop the clock because the clock hadn't started (beginning of period), and the only aspect worth discussing was "contact away from the ball with an opponent who is clearly not involved with a play".

If my dead ball "simple" hold play had involved a jersey grab, a push from behind, or a bear hug, or if it had been in the final seconds of a close game (where the defender jumped the gun to "deliberately" foul to stop the clock, actually preventing it from starting), it would be easy to adjudicate a dead ball intentional foul. My "simple" hold play was none of these, but still could be interpreted as intentional if one really pushes the definition envelope. Probably better to keep it simple and go with an inadvertent whistle. Or, better yet, realize that it's not intentional (purpose and intent) and not even sound the dead ball whistle.