Double T, shoot free throws?

[JRutledge]

I am not convinced this was a double T. It looks like it could have been easily two different Ts. Meaning one involved action and the other involved dead ball contact. That means you would two different events. And you can say what you have seen, but that does not mean it was right or that it has to always be a double T. The acts are not the same under the rules. One is taunting and the other is a dead ball contact technical foul that has a different penalty (despite the flopping).

Peace

[JRutledge]

I went back and looked at this on ESPN Plus.

They gave the ball back to the Norfolk State at the division line and called a dead ball technical foul on Coppin State player for the push.

Now the broadcasters said it was a double technical, but you can see and hear the official report the information to the TV people and said it was a dead ball technical and that they were giving the ball to Norfolk State.

So that tells me that this was not a double technical, but two separate acts, which is why you shoot all the free throws. That being said, the ball should have gone to the end line, not the division line.

It took a long time to get to this conclusion as well. Seemed like there was either disagreement or not understanding of what was called. Because one of the officials was going to put the ball in play at the division line before they shot free thows. So they seemed to get to the right conclusion on the free throw, but not the placement of the ball on the throw-in. Both coaches were confused, mostly the Norfolk State coach.

Peace

[Coach Bill]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I went back and looked at this on ESPN Plus.

They gave the ball back to the Norfolk State at the division line and called a dead ball technical foul on Coppin State player for the push.

Now the broadcasters said it was a double technical, but you can see and hear the official report the information to the TV people and said it was a dead ball technical and that they were giving the ball to Norfolk State.

So that tells me that this was not a double technical, but two separate acts, which is why you shoot all the free throws. That being said, the ball should have gone to the end line, not the division line.

It took a long time to get to this conclusion as well. Seemed like there was either disagreement or not understanding of what was called. Because one of the officials was going to put the ball in play at the division line before they shot free thows. So they seemed to get to the right conclusion on the free throw, but not the placement of the ball on the throw-in. Both coaches were confused, mostly the Norfolk State coach.

Peace

So, you think they adjudicated it as a false double foul?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

So, you think they adjudicated it as a false double foul?

No. Both were dead ball acts. But a double foul is seen at approximately the same time. If there is a delay or enough of one, they could be two separate acts. That is the only way you shoot the free throws. Also when they put it at the division line, that is kind of a tell it was not a double foul when the acts took place on the end line. Maybe they just screwed it up, but they would have had to make that mistake on several fronts, not just one way.

Peace

[Coach Bill]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

No. Both were dead ball acts. But a double foul is seen at approximately the same time. If there is a delay or enough of one, they could be two separate acts. That is the only way you shoot the free throws. Also when they put it at the division line, that is kind of a tell it was not a double foul when the acts took place on the end line. Maybe they just screwed it up, but they would have had to make that mistake on several fronts, not just one way.

Peace

I said it looks like it was called a "false" double foul, I.e., two separate acts. So, I think we're in agreement with how they administered it. Except, I can't figure out why the ball was inbounded at the division line. And, since neither was flagrant, I can't figure out why they didn't go to POI.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

I said it looks like it was called a "false" double foul, I.e., two separate acts. So, I think we're in agreement with how they administered it. Except, I can't figure out why the ball was inbounded at the division line. And, since neither was flagrant, I can't figure out why they didn't go to POI.

As I've already posted, the rule book is wrong. A bulletin was sent out in regards to CDBT and Flagrant fouls. The throw-in was put in at the division line by mistake, as that used to be the throw-in spot for CDBT.

Bottom-line, if there is a Flagrant technical foul or CDBT technical foul involved, the offended team gets a throw-in at a designated spot. It is not administered as POI.

[Coach Bill]

Originally Posted by Raymond

As I've already posted, the rule book is wrong. A bulletin was sent out in regards to CDBT and Flagrant fouls. The throw-in was put in at the division line by mistake, as that used to be the throw-in spot for CDBT.

Bottom-line, if there is a Flagrant technical foul or CDBT technical foul involved, the offended team gets a throw-in at a designated spot. It is not administered as POI.

The bulletin that I read seemed to make it clear that this is correct rule to apply:

h. When a double technical foul or any simultaneous foul occurs during
a stopped-clock period, all fouls shall be charged but no free throws
shall be awarded if the penalties are equal. Only the number of free
throws awarded shall be used to determine if the penalties are equal. If
the penalties are not equal, all free throws shall be administered. The
game shall resume at the point of interruption using the procedures
in Rule 7-3.2 unless one team has been awarded possession of the ball
as part of a penalty.

Case Book Correction to A.R. 130 – Rewrite of Ruling – “When the technical fouls assessed against A1 and B1 occur during the same dead ball period, the technical fouls are charged but no free throws are awarded."

I think the correct ruling is no free throws, Norfolk Ball on the endline. But, like Raymond said the rule book is contradictory in places. There is a Foul/Penalty chart on page 113, that says on a double technical (live or dead), you don't shoot free throws unless one of the fouls is a flagrant 2. TBH, that is what I was looking at initially in the OP when I pointed out no one was ejected, and wondering why free throws were shot.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

I said it looks like it was called a "false" double foul, I.e., two separate acts. So, I think we're in agreement with how they administered it. Except, I can't figure out why the ball was inbounded at the division line. And, since neither was flagrant, I can't figure out why they didn't go to POI.

A false double foul is when one of the fouls is live and the next foul is dead. That did not happen here. It is just two different Ts, that is it.

Also, dead ball contact fouls used to be opposite the table and at the division line. I think the officials just got a little confused there. That again is the only reason I can make out for where the throw-in took place.

Peace

[ilyazhito]

These were 2 different acts with 2 different penalties. Contact dead ball technical fouls do not follow the normal rules of putting the ball in play from the point of interruption. Rather, the offended team receives the ball at one of four spots in the frontcourt per Rule 7-3.2. The officials were following the old rule about ball placement on a contact dead ball technical foul. I get that it might not be discussed in pre-game, because it is an atypical situation, but I would expect NCAA tournament officials to put the ball in at the right spot.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

A false double foul is when one of the fouls is live and the next foul is dead.

While that may be true for college rules, for those high school officials trying to compare/contrast as they follow this thread, JRutledge's definition is not true for a high school false double fouls, where live ball/dead ball may not impact the definition.

A high school false double foul may involve a live ball foul followed by a dead ball foul, or it may involve two dead ball fouls. For example, technical foul on Red player, lets say for taunting, but after reporting, before White shoots the technical foul free throws (clock hasn't started), there is a technical foul charged to White player for profanity. False double (high school) foul, shot in the order that they occurred. Each foul carries its own penalties, for example, if the White profanity technical foul was considered flagrant, in addition for two free throws for Red, the White player would be disqualified. Following all free throws, ball to Red at (high school) division line.

NFHS 4-19-9: A false double foul is a situation in which there are fouls by both teams, the second of which occurs before the clock is started following the first, and such that at least one of the attributes of a double foul is absent.