The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball
The Strange Case Of The Vanishing Casebook Play ... The Strange Case Of The Vanishing Casebook Play ...
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 10, 2021, 12:37pm
Do not give a damn!!
  
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,561
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post

Did you not even call it the "proper" way in 2012-13?
I only remember one play in the last 10 years where a ball-handler hit a defender in the face with an elbow. And I was not the calling official and told my partner to upgrade it because he clearly measured him on some level. We did that and there was no language in the rulebook to do so other than discussing plays and if plays like that should be upgraded and when to upgrade certain contact. The POE made it sound like that is all you could call was an intentional or flagrant foul, similar to what the NCAA once did. But that had no common sense, so the NCAA changed its rules to reflect real-life or inadvertent situations. The NF never addressed it, so to me you do what makes sense. Just like all contact is not a foul, you have to consider when something is done out of the bounds of regular basketball and rule accordingly.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 10, 2021, 12:47pm
Esteemed Forum Member
  
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,396
Rule Language Versus Point Of Emphasis Language ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
... a ball-handler hit a defender in the face with an elbow ... upgrade it because he clearly measured him on some level ... there was no language in the rulebook to do so ...
Plenty of rule language available, but very subjective, requiring judgement, and why we get paid the big bucks.

4-19-3: An intentional foul is a personal or technical foul that may or may not be premeditated and is not based solely on the severity of the act. Intentional fouls include, but are not limited to: Excessive contact with an opponent while the ball is live

4-19-4: A flagrant foul may be a personal or technical foul of a violent nature involves, but is not limited to violent contact such as: striking, kicking and kneeing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
The POE made it sound like that is all you could call was an intentional or flagrant foul ...
True. Based on Point Of Emphasis language, somewhat less subjective:

If deemed not excessive (swinging) movement, it should be an intentional foul.

If deemed excessive (swinging) movement, it should be either an intentional foul, or flagrant personal foul.

__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Sep 10, 2021 at 12:56pm.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 10, 2021, 01:14pm
Do not give a damn!!
  
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,561
https://app.photobucket.com/u/StateF...3-023cea174f78

Is this play under NF rules considered an intentional foul? Contact above the shoulders right?

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 10, 2021, 01:15pm
Do not give a damn!!
  
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,561
Another Elbow play
What about this play?



Peacew
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 10, 2021, 01:44pm
Esteemed Forum Member
  
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,396
Contact Above The Shoulders ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
What about this play?