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Fri Sep 10, 2021, 01:44pm
BillyMac
Esteemed Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,312
Contact Above The Shoulders ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JRutledge
What about this play?
</iframe</div> </td> </tr> </table> </div>Thanks JRutledge. Great video to interpret contact above the shoulders.<br /> <br /> As a high school only official, I will interpret this under current NFHS rules and a relevant, but old, Point of Emphasis, that as a veteran official I'm am well aware of and can't ignore, or pretend to ignore, because, as far as I know, it's still valid, has never been ruled invalid, null, or void, and there have been no relevant rule changes, or interpretation changes to invalidate such.<br /> <br /> Contact above shoulders? Yes. Elbow to chin.<br /> <br /> Excessively swinging elbows? Yes, elbows were swinging with no feet pivoting, as well as elbows swinging faster than the hips were rotating.<br /> <br /> Type of foul? A moving elbow that is excessive that results in contact above shoulders can be either an intentional foul or flagrant personal foul.<br /> <br /> My interpretation: Intentional excessive contact foul. Close, but not quite violent enough to be a flagrant foul.<br /> <br /> <i>4-19-3: An intentional foul is a personal or technical foul that may or may not be premeditated and is not based solely on the severity of the act. Intentional fouls include, but are not limited to: Excessive contact with an opponent while the ball is live<br /> <br /> 4-19-4: A flagrant foul may be a personal or technical foul of a violent nature involves, but is not limited to violent contact such as: striking, kicking and kneeing.<br /> <br /> 2012-13 Points Of Emphasis Contact Above The Shoulders<br /> With a continued emphasis on reducing concussions and decreasing excessive contact situations the committee determined that more guidance is needed for penalizing contact above the shoulders. A player shall not swing his/her arm(s) or elbow(s) even without contacting an opponent. Excessive swinging of the elbows occurs when arms and elbows are swung about while using the shoulders as pivots, and the speed of the extended arms and elbows is in excess of the rest of the body as it rotates on the hips or on the pivot foot.<br /> Examples of illegal contact above the shoulders and resulting penalties.<br /> 1. Contact with a stationary elbow may be incidental or a common foul.<br /> 2. An elbow in movement but not excessive should be an intentional foul.<br /> 3. A moving elbow that is excessive can be either an intentional foul or flagrant personal foul.<br /> </i><br /> <br /> How will an inexperienced official interpret this with no current rulebook containing the 2012-13 Contact Above The Shoulders Points Of Emphasis? <br /> <br /> Hopefully, he would have had a great trainer who covered this situation during the training classes.<br /> <br /> Failing that, the inexperienced official would have to make his interpretation solely based on 4-129-3 and 4-19-4.<br /> <br /> Stupid NFHS. </div> <!-- / message --> <!-- sig --> <div> __________________<br /> <font color="DimGray"><font size="1">"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)<br /> <br /> “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) </font></font> </div> <!-- / sig --> <div style="margin-top: 10px" align="right"> <!-- controls --> <a href="https://forum.officiating.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1044666" rel="nofollow"><img src="https://forum.officiating.com/images/buttons/quote.gif" alt="Reply With Quote" border="0" /></a> <!-- / controls --> </div> <!-- message, attachments, sig --> </td> </tr> </table> <!-- post 1044666 popup menu --> <!-- / post 1044666 popup menu --> </div> </div> </div> </div> <!-- / close content container --> <!-- / post #1044666 --><!-- post #1044667 --> <!-- open content container --> <div align="center"> <div class="page" style="width:100%; text-align:left"> <div style="padding:0px 25px 0px 25px" align="left"> <div id="edit1044667" style="padding:0px 0px 6px 0px"> <!-- this is not the last post shown on the page --> <table class="tborder" id="post1044667" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="1" border="0" width="100%" align="center"> <tr> <td class="thead" > <div class="normal" style="float:right"> #<a href="https://forum.officiating.com/1044667-post32.html" target="new" id="postcount1044667" name="32"><strong>32</strong></a> (<b><a href="https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/105501-strange-case-vanishing-casebook-play-3.html#post1044667" title="Link to this Post">permalink</a></b>) </div> <div class="normal"> <!-- status icon and date --> <a name="post1044667"><img class="inlineimg" src="https://forum.officiating.com/images/statusicon/post_old.gif" alt="Old" border="0" /></a> Fri Sep 10, 2021, 01:56pm <!-- / status icon and date --> </div> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt2" style="padding:0px"> <!-- user info --> <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="6" border="0" width="100%"> <tr> <td nowrap="nowrap"> <div id="postmenu_1044667"> <a rel="nofollow" class="bigusername" href="https://forum.officiating.com/members/billymac.html">BillyMac</a> <img class="inlineimg" src="https://forum.officiating.com/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif" alt="BillyMac is offline" border="0" /> </div> <div class="smallfont">Esteemed Forum Member</div> </td> <td width="100%"> </td> <td valign="top" nowrap="nowrap"> <div class="smallfont"> <div>Join Date: Aug 2005</div> <div>Location: Connecticut</div> <div> Posts: 23,312 </div> <div> </div> </div> </td> </tr> </table> <!-- / user info --> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt1" id="td_post_1044667"> <!-- message, attachments, sig --> <!-- icon and title --> <div class="smallfont"> <strong>Rulebook ...</strong> </div> <hr size="1" style="color:#D1D1E1; background-color:#D1D1E1" /> <!-- / icon and title --> <!-- message --> <div id="post_message_1044667"> <div style="margin:20px; margin-top:5px; "> <div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px">Quote:</div> <table cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="100%"> <tr> <td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset"> <div> Originally Posted by <strong>JRutledge</strong> <a href="https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/105501-strange-case-vanishing-casebook-play-post1044664.html#post1044664" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="https://forum.officiating.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif" border="0" alt="View Post" /></a> </div> <div style="font-style:italic">There was an entire directive about announcers in and out of the rulebook. There was a PowerPoint that discussed this in detail from the NF</div> </td> </tr> </table> </div>It was only in the rulebbok because it was a Point of Emphasis that year, as with all annual Points of Emphasis. And there was a NF Power Point, as with all annual Points of Emphasis.<br /> <br /> Was it in the actual rule part of the rulebook and more importantly, is it still the rulebook? </div> <!-- / message --> <!-- sig --> <div> __________________<br /> <font color="DimGray"><font size="1">"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)<br /> <br /> “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) </font></font> </div> <!-- / sig --> <div style="margin-top: 10px" align="right"> <!-- controls --> <a href="https://forum.officiating.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1044667" rel="nofollow"><img src="https://forum.officiating.com/images/buttons/quote.gif" alt="Reply With Quote" border="0" /></a> <!-- / controls --> </div> <!-- message, attachments, sig --> </td> </tr> </table> <!-- post 1044667 popup menu --> <!-- / post 1044667 popup menu --> </div> </div> </div> </div> <!-- / close content container --> <!-- / post #1044667 --><!-- post #1049225 --> <!-- open content container --> <div align="center"> <div class="page" style="width:100%; text-align:left"> <div style="padding:0px 25px 0px 25px" align="left"> <div id="edit1049225" style="padding:0px 0px 6px 0px"> <table class="tborder" id="post1049225" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="1" border="0" width="100%" align="center"> <tr> <td class="thead" > <div class="normal" style="float:right"> #<a href="https://forum.officiating.com/1049225-post33.html" target="new" id="postcount1049225" name="33"><strong>33</strong></a> (<b><a href="https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/105501-strange-case-vanishing-casebook-play-3.html#post1049225" title="Link to this Post">permalink</a></b>) </div> <div class="normal"> <!-- status icon and date --> <a name="post1049225"><img class="inlineimg" src="https://forum.officiating.com/images/statusicon/post_old.gif" alt="Old" border="0" /></a> Wed Nov 09, 2022, 12:07pm <!-- / status icon and date --> </div> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt2" style="padding:0px"> <!-- user info --> <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="6" border="0" width="100%"> <tr> <td nowrap="nowrap"> <div id="postmenu_1049225"> <a rel="nofollow" class="bigusername" href="https://forum.officiating.com/members/billymac.html">BillyMac</a> <img class="inlineimg" src="https://forum.officiating.com/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif" alt="BillyMac is offline" border="0" /> </div> <div class="smallfont">Esteemed Forum Member</div> </td> <td width="100%"> </td> <td valign="top" nowrap="nowrap"> <div class="smallfont"> <div>Join Date: Aug 2005</div> <div>Location: Connecticut</div> <div> Posts: 23,312 </div> <div> </div> </div> </td> </tr> </table> <!-- / user info --> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt1" id="td_post_1049225"> <!-- message, attachments, sig --> <!-- icon and title --> <div class="smallfont"> <strong>test</strong> </div> <hr size="1" style="color:#D1D1E1; background-color:#D1D1E1" /> <!-- / icon and title --> <!-- message --> <div id="post_message_1049225"> test </div> <!-- / message --> <!-- sig --> <div> __________________<br /> <font color="DimGray"><font size="1">"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)<br /> <br /> “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) </font></font> </div> <!-- / sig --> <div style="margin-top: 10px" align="right"> <!-- controls --> <a href="https://forum.officiating.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1049225" rel="nofollow"><img src="https://forum.officiating.com/images/buttons/quote.gif" alt="Reply With Quote" border="0" /></a> <!-- / controls --> </div> <!-- message, attachments, sig --> </td> </tr> </table> <!-- post 1049225 popup menu --> <!-- / post 1049225 popup menu --> </div> </div> </div> </div> <!-- / close content container --> <!-- / post #1049225 --><div id="lastpost"></div></div> <!-- start content table --> <!-- open content container --> <div align="center"> <div class="page" style="width:100%; text-align:left"> <div style="padding:0px 25px 0px 25px" align="left"> <!-- / start content table --> <!-- controls below postbits --> <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="100%" style="margin-top:-3px"> <tr valign="top"> <td class="smallfont"><a href="https://forum.officiating.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=1049225" rel="nofollow"><img src="https://forum.officiating.com/images/buttons/reply.gif" alt="Reply" border="0" /></a></td> <td align="right"><div class="pagenav" align="right"> <table class="tborder" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1" border="0"> <tr> <td class="vbmenu_control" style="font-weight:normal">Page 3 of 3</td> <td class="alt1"><a rel="prev" class="smallfont" href="https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/105501-strange-case-vanishing-casebook-play-2.html" title="Prev Page - Results 16 to 30 of 33"><</a></td> <td class="alt1"><a class="smallfont" href="https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/105501-strange-case-vanishing-casebook-play.html" title="Show results 1 to 15 of 33">1</a></td><td class="alt1"><a class="smallfont" href="https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/105501-strange-case-vanishing-casebook-play-2.html" title="Show results 16 to 30 of 33">2</a></td> <td class="alt2"><span class="smallfont" title="Showing results 31 to 33 of 33"><strong>3</strong></span></td> <td class="vbmenu_control" title="showthread.php?t=105501"><a name="PageNav"></a></td> </tr> </table> </div> </td> </tr> </table> <!-- / controls below postbits --> <!-- social bookmarking links --> <br /> <table cellpadding="6" cellspacing="1" border="0" width="100%" class="tborder" align="center"> <tr> <td class="thead">Bookmarks</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt2" style="padding-top:0px"><div style="clear:both"></div><ul style="list-style-type:none; 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