Fun With The Division Line ...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... will ask those in position in due time ... misrepresent the conversation ...

I would welcome an opportunity to help set some parameters, so as to not misrepresent the conversation.

Ball simply mishandled, only touching his hand?

Ball defected off the leg of the dribbler?

I personally don't have an overwhelming interest the ball deflecting off a teammate (not an opponent), but Raymond may be interested in such.

More importantly, so as to not misrepresent the conversation.

Interpretations based the existing written rules alone?

Interpretations based on purpose and intent?

So as to not misrepresent the conversation, be sure to mention that at no time did the ball ever touch the floor in the frontcourt.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

When the ball is batted, thrown, rolled, to a teammate, the action is considered a pass. We've considered that to be the case forever when it comes to whether we consider an act a dribble vs. a pass with respect to the illegal dribble and travel rules.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

4-14: The dribble ends when: The dribbler catches or causes the ball to come to rest in one or both hands.The dribbler palms/carries the ball by allowing it to come to rest in one or both hands.The dribbler simultaneously touches the ball with both hands.The ball touches or is touched by an opponent and causes the dribbler to lose control. The ball becomes dead.

In the regular, garden variety basketball play of a dribbler making an off the dribble bounce pass to a teammate, when, by definition, does the dribble actually end (and the pass begin)?

When the player is no longer dribbling?

How does one define "no longer" dribbling?

I don't believe that all answers can be found in 4-14 (above).

One must go beyond 4-14 to define the end of a dribble in some cases, often very common cases, not odd, or rare, at all.

Could the answer be when the dribble changes into a pass (à la Camron Rust), or a shot, or something else?

How about, when the dribbler is no longer batting (intentionally strikes the ball with the hand) or pushing the ball to the floor?

4-15-1: A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats (intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)) or pushes the ball to the floor once or several times.

Going back dozens of posts, is an interrupted dribble still a dribble?

Is the ball being intentionally struck with the hand?

Did the dribble ever end in the video?

Did the deflection end the dribble, or did the deflection just change the dribble into an interrupted dribble (which may still have been a part of a dribble)?

Would we all allow a player to "catch up" to an interrupted dribble (deflected off the dribbler's leg) and continue to dribble?

We wouldn't if we considered the interrupted dribble (deflected off dribbler's leg) to end the "first dribble", it would be an illegal (second) dribble.

Things that make you go hmmm.