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Old Wed Apr 28, 2021, 10:37am
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Fun With A Drive To The Hoop ...

IAABO Make The Call Video

https://storage.googleapis.com/refqu...HLJAbBX8Sb.mp4

Is this a traveling violation? Observe the player who drives into the lane and executes a jump stop. Is this a legal play or it is a violation?

Two choices: This is a legal jump stop. This is an illegal jump stop and should have been ruled a traveling violation.

My comment: This is a legal jump stop. Tough call. Blue #5 caught the ball while dribbling and landed simultaneously on both feet, thus allowing either foot to be the pivot foot. However, in this video it’s very difficult to determine if the ball handler had his right foot on the floor when he first catches the ball. If his right foot was on the floor when he caught the ball, that would be his pivot foot, and it was lifted, and returned to the floor, before the ball was released on a pass, or try for goal, thus illegal, and a travel violation. If you’re not sure, don’t call it.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Apr 28, 2021 at 11:03am.
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Old Wed Apr 28, 2021, 10:39am
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Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On (Jerry Lee Lewis, 1957)

The IAABO question was about the jump stop, however ...

Blue #5 traveled at the top of the key early in the play, lifting his pivot foot before releasing the ball to start his dribble at the start of his drive into the lane.

There's a lot going on in this video, the start of a dribble, the start of a jump stop, and the end of a jump stop.

The end of the jump stop may be the only legal move in this video.

Even the foul call by the Trail was close.

This is why we get paid the big bucks, to figure this stuff out.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Apr 28, 2021 at 11:05am.
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Old Wed Apr 28, 2021, 11:08am
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The jump stop is legal and then he travels after moving one of his feet after attempting a jump stop.

But he actually travels before he drives after the pump fake. He moves both feet before he starts his dribble. This is the bigger concern in this play than the jump stop IMO.

And this looks like a college game.

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Old Wed Apr 28, 2021, 11:15am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
The jump stop is legal and then he travels after moving one of his feet after attempting a jump stop.

But he actually travels before he drives after the pump fake. He moves both feet before he starts his dribble. This is the bigger concern in this play than the jump stop IMO.

And this looks like a college game.

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He slides his left foot on the pump fake (I have it as pivot and a travel), then picks it up before dribble and another travel, then when he tries to pivot after the jump stop -- gathers with right foot on floor jumps to land on both (legal), then tries to pivot = travel...... 3 travels and they come out with a foul?
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Old Wed Apr 28, 2021, 11:20am
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Either Foot Could Legally Be His Pivot Foot ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
The jump stop is legal and then he travels after moving one of his feet after attempting a jump stop.
Since he landed simultaneously on both feet, either foot could legally be his pivot foot, he chose his left foot as such, and legally pivoted.

4-44-2-A: A player who catches the ball while moving or dribbling may stop and establish a pivot foot as follows: If both feet are off the floor and the player lands: Simultaneously on both feet, either foot may be the pivot.

If he traveled after that, I'm having difficulty seeing it because of the picture in picture format, and maybe the foul, as called, preceded the travel.
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Old Wed Apr 28, 2021, 11:23am
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Gathers ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MOVBlue View Post
... gathers with right foot on floor jumps to land ...
Agree, but it was very difficult to see on the video, which is why I passed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
However, in this video it’s very difficult to determine if the ball handler had his right foot on the floor when he first catches the ball. If his right foot was on the floor when he caught the ball, that would be his pivot foot, and it was lifted, and returned to the floor, before the ball was released on a pass, or try for goal, thus illegal, and a travel violation. If you’re not sure, don’t call it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOVBlue View Post
... then tries to pivot = travel
If one ignores everything that came before that (which we can't), the last pivot would have been legal.

Assume legal start of dribble drive (I've got a travel). Assume legal jump into jump stop (I'm not sure, but won't argue against it being illegal):

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
4-44-2-A: A player who catches the ball while moving or dribbling may stop and establish a pivot foot as follows: If both feet are off the floor and the player lands: Simultaneously on both feet, either foot may be the pivot.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Apr 28, 2021 at 11:28am.
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Old Wed Apr 28, 2021, 11:28am
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He performed a jump stop based on Rule 4-44-2b.

Quote:
b. If one foot is on the floor:

2. The player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both feet. Neither foot can be the pivot in this case.
He did not stop his dribble with both feet in the air. He stopped his dribble with the left foot on the floor and landed on both feet as close to simultaneously as you can. After that, he has traveled if he picks up and puts down either foot.

Gather or ending of dribble:


Gather or ending of dribble Part 2:


Landing on both feet:


Sorry for the big images, trying to figure out how to make them smaller from this website I have not used in a long time.

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Last edited by JRutledge; Wed Apr 28, 2021 at 11:41am.
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Old Wed Apr 28, 2021, 11:31am
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Possible Three Travels ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MOVBlue View Post
He slides his left foot on the pump fake (I have it as pivot and a travel), then picks it up before dribble and another travel ...
Nice observation. Took me several replays to see it. Two travels before the ball leaves his hands for the dribble drive.
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Old Wed Apr 28, 2021, 11:42am
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Nice Citation ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
He did not stop his dribble with both feet in the air. He stopped his dribble with the left foot on the floor and landed on both feet as close to simultaneously as you can. After that, he has traveled if he picks up and puts down either foot.
Hard to see, but you saw it, and I believe it.

I like your citation, it's different than mine, but yours, unlike mine, is the correct citation.

4-44-2-B: A player who catches the ball while moving or dribbling may stop and establish a pivot foot as follows: If one foot is on the floor: It is the pivot when the other foot touches in a step. The player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both. Neither foot can be a pivot in this case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
However, in this video it’s very difficult to determine if the ball handler had his right foot on the floor when he first catches the ball. If his right foot was on the floor when he caught the ball, that would be his pivot foot, and it was lifted, and returned to the floor, before the ball was released on a pass, or try for goal, thus illegal, and a travel violation.
My alternate (hard to see) illegal call was correct, but for the wrong reason.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Apr 28, 2021 at 04:28pm.
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Old Wed Apr 28, 2021, 11:59am
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Faces In The Crowd ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
And this looks like a college game.
Notice the faces of the fans in the cheap seats.

I bet that they're not yelling, "Don't quit your day job".
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

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Old Wed Apr 28, 2021, 12:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Notice the faces of the fans in the cheap seats.

I bet that they're not yelling, "Don't quit your day job".
Worked most of my games like this during this year at the college level. It was not that bad. LOL!!!

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Old Wed Apr 28, 2021, 12:13pm
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One, Two, Cha Cha Cha ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
4-44-2-B: A player who catches the ball while moving or dribbling may stop and establish a pivot foot as follows: If one foot is on the floor: It is the pivot when the other foot touches in a step. The player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both. Neither foot can be a pivot in this case.
It was over forty years ago, but I can remember it like it happened yesterday, my training classes with my first local interpreter (first of four over forty years). Held in a college classroom, he was trying to demonstrate all the various permutations of legal jump stops, gathering and holding a ball while moving between rows of desks, like he was demonstrating dance moves. A tall guy, he was very awkward, and I doubt that he was a very good dancer. Like me, he was probably such a poor ball handler in high school that he was seldom allowed to dribble the ball unless he was in the lane near the basket. Former point guards should be demonstrating legal jump stops to rookie officials.

I was so young, so innocent, so filled with hope and anticipation, so naive.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Apr 28, 2021 at 04:19pm.
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Old Wed Apr 28, 2021, 12:24pm
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Legally executes the jump stop then travels because there is no pivot foot when alighting off one foot then landing on 2 feet.

It is a D3 college game. I probably know at least one of the officials because there is overlap from that conference to conferences I'm in.

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Last edited by Raymond; Wed Apr 28, 2021 at 12:29pm.
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Old Wed Apr 28, 2021, 12:25pm
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A Little Traveling Music Please (Jackie Gleason) ...

While many may disagree with me, I say that traveling is the most difficult call for any basketball official to make, not block/charge, not basket interference/goaltending, not illegal screens, not verticality, not reboundng fouls, not continuation/act of shooting, not out of bounds, not dealing with coaches; it's traveling.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Apr 28, 2021 at 01:59pm.
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Old Wed Apr 28, 2021, 01:19pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
While many may disagree with me, I say that traveling is the most difficult call for any basketball official to make, not block/charge, not illegal screens, not verticality, not reboundng fouls, not continuation/act of shooting, not out of bounds, not dealing with coaches; it's traveling.
Basket interference/goaltending is the most difficult because we don’t have the proper viewpoint from which to judge this action. We need to be up high, but are on the floor with the players.

Traveling would be my #2 because of how quick the feet move and the need to also see where the ball is at particular moments. Note that we often get screened from viewing the ball by a player’s body—offense or defense.
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