And One Technical Foul ...

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Agree that labeling a T as a " nuclear option" is problematic.

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And then people wonder why sportsmanship is getting worse. Too many high school officials preach nonsense about avoiding technical fouls like your life depends on it.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Too many high school officials preach nonsense about avoiding technical fouls like your life depends on it.

Forty years ago, when I first started out, I gave out a lot of technical fouls. Part of the reason was because I could (hypnotized by this new power that I held). Another reason was that back then my high school assigner also assigned a few mens recreation leagues, games that were mostly assigned to inexperienced officials and we all know about the crap that occurs in those games (especially with an inexperienced official making some rookie bad calls).

As I progressed to subvarsity high school games, I noticed that my subvarsity partners and the varsity officials that I observed seemed to less frequently charge technical fouls.

One reason, and not a good one, was that (here in Connecticut) coaches "vote" officials into the state tournament. I never subscribed to this idea. I guess that these lenient officials didn't realize that while one voting coach may appreciate the "free pass", the opposing voting coach may not, believing that officials should "take care of business".

Another reason was that many veteran varsity officials prided themselves on their game management skills, using their superior communication and "people" skills to manage coaches "on the cusp".

For me, now in my fortieth year, I do pride myself on my game management, communication, and "people" skills, but also know the value of using technical fouls as one of the many tools that I have at my disposal to manage the game.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Forty years ago, when I first started out, I gave out a lot of technical fouls. Part of the reason was because I could (hypnotized by this new power that I held). Another reason was that back then my high school assigner also assigned a few mens recreation leagues, games that were mostly assigned to inexperienced officials and we all know about the crap that occurs in those games (especially with an inexperienced official making some rookie bad calls).

As I progressed to subvarsity high school games, I noticed that my subvarsity partners and the varsity officials that I observed seemed to less frequently charge technical fouls.

One reason, and not a good one, was that (here in Connecticut) coaches "vote" officials into the state tournament. I never subscribed to this idea. I guess that these lenient officials didn't realize that while one voting coach may appreciate the "free pass", the opposing voting coach may not, believing that officials should "take care of business".

Another reason was that many veteran varsity officials prided themselves on their game management skills, using their superior communication and "people" skills to manage coaches "on the cusp".

For me, now in my fortieth year, I do pride myself on my game management, communication, and "people" skills, but also know the value of using technical fouls as one of the many tools that I have at my disposal to manage the game.

I think part of the problem is that too many officials are under the impression that being a good communicator and issuing technical fouls are mutually exclusive. Because they have been brainwashed by coaches who think that way and announcers on TV.

In my experience college coaches almost always quickly move on after getting a T and go back to coaching for the rest of the game. I cannot say the same about more than one high school coach I have experienced who takes it personally and threatens to "scratch" me.

Again, the NBA philosophy is the way it should be at the lower levels. Especially in HS where we are preached to about how the games are an extension of the classroom.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SC Official

I think part of the problem is that too many officials are under the impression that being a good communicator and issuing technical fouls are mutually exclusive. Because they have been brainwashed by coaches who think that way and announcers on TV.

In my experience college coaches almost always quickly move on after getting a T and go back to coaching for the rest of the game. I cannot say the same about more than one high school coach I have experienced who takes it personally and threatens to "scratch" me.

Again, the NBA philosophy is the way it should be at the lower levels. Especially in HS where we are preached to about how the games are an extension of the classroom.

I've found that the written warning the NFHS put in place has stopped coaches - and I don't hesitate to go to it.

Working a regional championship this season, the home coach was unhappy we didn't call a travel and did a dance to demonstrate. It was a bit over the top and I immediately hit the whistle and put a warning in the book. No discussion. And that was that.

Once warned, no more warnings, though.


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[Mike Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Rich

I've found that the written warning the NFHS put in place has stopped coaches - and I don't hesitate to go to it.

I've been having good success with the written warning this season. No HC has been assessed a technical foul for any subsequent behavior in the same game where a warning was recorded.

Some of my peer group have also started to issue more warnings than they have in previous seasons.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

I've found that the written warning the NFHS put in place has stopped coaches - and I don't hesitate to go to it.

Working a regional championship this season, the home coach was unhappy we didn't call a travel and did a dance to demonstrate. It was a bit over the top and I immediately hit the whistle and put a warning in the book. No discussion. And that was that.

Once warned, no more warnings, though.

To me this is like the stop sign, it leads to other shit. I stopped using it a year ago. And some things do not need a warning, they need action. Maybe I will change my mind, but I doubt it.

Peace

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

To me this is like the stop sign, it leads to other shit. I stopped using it a year ago. And some things do not need a warning, they need action. Maybe I will change my mind, but I doubt it.

Peace

I worked a college game this season where my partner did the whole "Head coach warning, put it in the book" thing. The assigner was watching online and was not a fan - he basically said if you are going to stop the game to let everyone know the coach has been warned, you might as well just stick him and be done with it. This is more akin to the NBA philosophy - the first technical foul is their warning that they are going to be ejected if they continue. And I personally agree with that philosophy.

And that is notwithstanding the fact that in NCAA-M you are not supposed to put a warning in the book unless it is a coaching box warning (this coach was not out of the box). The assigner did not even mention that aspect.

I have stopped using the "official warning" in NFHS games, as well, for the most part.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich

I've found that the written warning the NFHS put in place has stopped coaches - and I don't hesitate to go to it.

Originally Posted by Mike Goodwin

I've been having good success with the written warning this season. No HC has been assessed a technical foul for any subsequent behavior in the same game where a warning was recorded.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

...it leads to other shit. I stopped using it a year ago. And some things do not need a warning, they need action

Originally Posted by SC Official

... if you are going to stop the game to let everyone know the coach has been warned, you might as well just stick him and be done with it. I have stopped using the "official warning" in NFHS games, as well, for the most part.

What works for one might not work for all, and vice versa. Just another tool that some choose to use, and others choose not to use.

In borderline situations, I've used both, sometimes (written) warning, sometimes going directly to the technical foul. Depends on a lot of factors in borderline situations; what's been said, tone, frequency, volume, gestures, box issues, my patience (or lack of), my mood (pissed off), etc.

In many situations where I would, in the past, ignore, or possibly give a vocal warning, and then "take care of business" later, the written warning is a nice substitute for ignoring, or a nice substitute for a vocal warning, before "taking care of business", but is not a substitute for something that requires an official to immediately "take care of business".

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

I worked a college game this season where my partner did the whole "Head coach warning, put it in the book" thing. The assigner was watching online and was not a fan - he basically said if you are going to stop the game to let everyone know the coach has been warned, you might as well just stick him and be done with it. This is more akin to the NBA philosophy - the first technical foul is their warning that they are going to be ejected if they continue. And I personally agree with that philosophy.

And that is notwithstanding the fact that in NCAA-M you are not supposed to put a warning in the book unless it is a coaching box warning (this coach was not out of the box). The assigner did not even mention that aspect.

I have stopped using the "official warning" in NFHS games, as well, for the most part.

There is only a coach's box warning on the NCAA Men's side. And this year with the Covid restrictions, it has rarely if ever been an issue. Everyone is so far back and off the court, coaches do not feel the need to come onto the court. I did improperly a few years ago use a "bench warning" in a college game but immediately after I did that, the coach got a T from my partner (code creep).

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

To me this is like the stop sign, it leads to other shit. I stopped using it a year ago. And some things do not need a warning, they need action. Maybe I will change my mind, but I doubt it.



Peace

The behavior ends or I whack the coach. I'm doing the coach a favor by not going right to the T.

I'm done with any verbal warnings, too. If I need to get a coach to knock it off, the written warning is my warning. Period.


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[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

And then people wonder why sportsmanship is getting worse. Too many high school officials preach nonsense about avoiding technical fouls like your life depends on it.

You are right.

I had a game yesterday that was a conference tournament (we will have no IHSA Post Season this year). So during the first game, I have a player T after the player was warned. Well when the team lost, we had them again (same crew) right after the first game.

Well during this next game the coach for that team got a T from me, carrying over something from the first game (big no-no for me). Then I had to T up one of his players for throwing the ball at the head of the opponent, after that player that got hit was fouled. My partner called the foul, but I saw the kid throwing the ball at the opponent. It was clear as day.

So immediately after the game because we are in the COVID issue and would not allow us to use the locker room continuously and store our things in that locker room, our bags were right off the court. When the game was over after an overtime session, the coach approaches me and threatens that he was going to call the assignor and called me a disgrace. Well, I was literally on the basketball court and not even near the locker room, I ejected him with a quickness and told the table he had been ejected from the game. Then the coach standing next to me tried to tell the table, "The game is over, you cannot do anything the game is over."

So I went to my car and filed what is called a "Special Report" which is used for all ejections in all states (except for soccer for some reason). I have wifi so I filled out the report and happen to have my computer in the car because I was leaving to go out of town. So without hesitation, I filled out the report. While driving to my destination (3 hours away) the assignor asked me not to file the report, even know I was following the rules. I was pissed beyond belief, but it was too damn late. I had already submitted the report and cannot take it back. And I am a very experienced official that had to deal with this, what about the guy that just started or has 5 years in?

The schools helped create this situation. Normally I would have not been anywhere near the court and on our way to the locker room. Secondly, they think because they can do whatever they wish without consequences. But a T is the same as any other foul, but it is not. IJS.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... immediately after the game because we are in the COVID issue and would not allow us to use the locker room continuously and store our things in that locker room, our bags were right off the court ... Normally I would have not been anywhere near the court and on our way to the locker room.

One of our COVID protocols here in Connecticut (locker rooms aren't available to officials) is that we've been advised to immediately leave the visual confines of the court after the game as we would in any other year, but to then come back onto the court to change our shoes and get our coats.

It seemed rather silly when I first heard it, but now I see the need for this Connecticut charade after what happened to JRutledge.

For this same situation, no technical foul here in Connecticut (jurisdiction ended after the charade of leaving the court) but I would still contact my assigner (wants to know when anything "odd" happens), who would most likely contact the school's athletic director and/or principal.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

When the game was over after an overtime session, the coach approaches me and threatens that he was going to call the assignor and called me a disgrace ... I ejected him with a quickness and told the table he had been ejected from the game ... the assignor asked me not to file the report, even know I was following the rules.

Nice job taking care of business. Inexcusable that your assigner wouldn't back you.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You are right.



I had a game yesterday that was a conference tournament (we will have no IHSA Post Season this year). So during the first game, I have a player T after the player was warned. Well when the team lost, we had them again (same crew) right after the first game.



Well during this next game the coach for that team got a T from me, carrying over something from the first game (big no-no for me). Then I had to T up one of his players for throwing the ball at the head of the opponent, after that player that got hit was fouled. My partner called the foul, but I saw the kid throwing the ball at the opponent. It was clear as day.



So immediately after the game because we are in the COVID issue and would not allow us to use the locker room continuously and store our things in that locker room, our bags were right off the court. When the game was over after an overtime session, the coach approaches me and threatens that he was going to call the assignor and called me a disgrace. Well, I was literally on the basketball court and not even near the locker room, I ejected him with a quickness and told the table he had been ejected from the game. Then the coach standing next to me tried to tell the table, "The game is over, you cannot do anything the game is over."



So I went to my car and filed what is called a "Special Report" which is used for all ejections in all states (except for soccer for some reason). I have wifi so I filled out the report and happen to have my computer in the car because I was leaving to go out of town. So without hesitation, I filled out the report. While driving to my destination (3 hours away) the assignor asked me not to file the report, even know I was following the rules. I was pissed beyond belief, but it was too damn late. I had already submitted the report and cannot take it back. And I am a very experienced official that had to deal with this, what about the guy that just started or has 5 years in?



The schools helped create this situation. Normally I would have not been anywhere near the court and on our way to the locker room. Secondly, they think because they can do whatever they wish without consequences. But a T is the same as any other foul, but it is not. IJS.



Peace

I assign for 24 schools and I could never imagine asking an official to do something like this. It's not ethical, for one....


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[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

I assign for 24 schools and I could never imagine asking an official to do something like this. It's not ethical, for one....

IT was shocking coming from the person it came from (that is all I will say). But if the coach of the other team saw this happen as well as other participants, I am the one getting in trouble, not the assignor. I have known it to happen to officials that did not file the report when they ejected a player.

In Indiana alone (and this incident was in Illinois BTW) you have to report every technical foul given and the reasoning. It affects their being able to host or properly get certain privileges if they get so many of these actions. You have to fill out those reports. And I would have never thought to even eject the coach if he did not approach me. He should have known better. I am actually very disappointed to be asked to not report something that clearly happened in front of others.

Peace