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Old Thu Mar 04, 2021, 10:54am
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And One Technical Foul ...

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Old Thu Mar 04, 2021, 12:21pm
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And One ...

Hear "And one" from the fans in the cheap seats all the time and totally ignore.

Hear it from the bench and tell them to "Knock it off". Hear it for the head coach and tell him "Let's not do that tonight coach". Hear it for a player on the court and warn it's "Not appropriate". Most times they're doing it out of habit (sometimes it's said when the ball doesn't even go in the basket, and when I do call the foul I often ask "So, do you only want one free throw?"), aren't directing it toward just one official, are just getting "psyched up", and aren't really trying to influence, or complain. I'm not going to ignore, but I'm not automatically going to the "nuclear option".

I don't recall charging a technical foul for such, but if it was loud enough, and in an angry tone, and definitely directed at me, or my partner, I would definitely consider a technical foul.

As to the video (without commenting on the call by the NBA official, I don't know enough about NBA officiating), I like to think that I would have done the same thing (technical foul) had this exact situation occurred in my high school game.

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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Mar 04, 2021 at 12:58pm.
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Old Thu Mar 04, 2021, 12:34pm
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The NBA has very specific "Respect the Game" rules outlining what is and is not allowed, and what results in an immediate technical foul vs. a warning. I'm pretty confident that shouting "And one!" while clearly directing it at an official would result in at least a warning and I would not be surprised if Harrell had been previously told he needed to stop complaining.
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Old Thu Mar 04, 2021, 12:44pm
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I really hate that phrase and how it has caught on and become a "norm" even when there is space between the defender and the offense as the bench hollers AND ONE.

This year actually told one kid "Not at me again".
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Old Thu Mar 04, 2021, 01:05pm
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It is an interesting topic. There are players that will literally say this everytime they shoot the ball. It gets old quickly and I have talked to players but never T'd any of them.

I find it it similar to the "Ball don't lie." Basically they are picking different wordings for I got fouled and you didn't call it or I didn't foul them and you did call it.
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Old Thu Mar 04, 2021, 01:22pm
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Norm ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
... I don't recall charging a technical foul for such ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Man View Post
... caught on and become a "norm" ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdoebler View Post
... never T'd any of them.
In our high school games, are we to blame? If we're not part of the solution, aren't we part of the problem?

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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Mar 04, 2021 at 01:31pm.
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Old Thu Mar 04, 2021, 02:18pm
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Holy Cow

I had this idea in 2017
https://forum.officiating.com/basket...-new-rule.html
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Old Thu Mar 04, 2021, 02:45pm
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Green Onions (Booker T. And The M.G.'s, 1962) ...

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Originally Posted by Zoochy View Post
I had this idea in 2017.
Thanks Zoochy. Nice four-year old blast from the past.

JRutledge: I just say back to them, "And none." Usually gives me a laugh and we move on.

Funny.

RedAndWhiteRef: Toward an opponent ... in an unsportsmanlike manner.

Never really considered this aspect. Peels away another layer of the onion.

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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Mar 04, 2021 at 03:39pm.
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Old Thu Mar 04, 2021, 04:37pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I'm not going to ignore, but I'm not automatically going to the "nuclear option".
The fact that a technical foul is considered a "nuclear option" is part of the problem. We get hung up on warning them first. The first technical IS the warning.

And in the NBA, this should be even more of the norm. 1 FT and POI. Not even possible loss of a possession.
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Old Thu Mar 04, 2021, 10:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altor View Post
The fact that a technical foul is considered a "nuclear option" is part of the problem. We get hung up on warning them first. The first technical IS the warning.

And in the NBA, this should be even more of the norm. 1 FT and POI. Not even possible loss of a possession.
The NBA philosophy on technical fouls is the way it should be at the lower levels.
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Old Fri Mar 05, 2021, 02:44am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
The NBA philosophy on technical fouls is the way it should be at the lower levels.
Hear, hear. I personally use the Respect for the Game guidelines as a starting point in deciding when and how to penalize bad behavior. If it meets at least 2 of the 3 criteria (demonstrative, disrespectful, prolonged), I call the technical foul.

The video in the OP shows Harrell being demonstrative (yelling loudly, raising his hands in disbelief) and disrespectful to the ruling official by screaming "and one" (I.e. that was a foul, why don't I get a free throw?). By the Respect for the Game guidelines, that is a totally appropriate technical foul.

Last edited by ilyazhito; Fri Mar 05, 2021 at 02:47am.
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Old Fri Mar 05, 2021, 02:32pm
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Nuclear Option ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Altor View Post
The first technical IS the warning.
Something like this must be taken in context. Volume. Tone. Direction. Frequency. Situation.

If I were to charge a technical foul for every, "And one" I heard from a player, coach, or bench personnel, this would be my assigner:

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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Mar 05, 2021 at 05:56pm.
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Old Fri Mar 05, 2021, 02:38pm
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I don't disagree. But, to call a TF the "nuclear option" makes it sound like it's something that should only be done in extreme situations. A TF is a tool, one of many in our bag. It hardly blows up the game to call a TF when one is warranted.
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Old Fri Mar 05, 2021, 05:55pm
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Extreme Situations ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Altor View Post
But, to call a TF the "nuclear option" makes it sound like it's something that should only be done in extreme situations.
Regarding the specific situation of "And one", I do believe that technical fouls should only be used in extreme "And one" situations rather than the usual "And ones"s one usually hears being tossed around like penny candy, especially here in my little corner of Connecticut.

In many other situations technical fouls aren't a nuclear option, they are the only option, just one of the many tools we have in our gold tool belts.

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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Mar 06, 2021 at 01:26pm.
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Old Sat Mar 06, 2021, 01:03pm
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That 'And 1' was yelled to show displeasure with an official, so I could see myself calling a T here depending on previous interactions and behavior.

Agree that labeling a T as a " nuclear option" is problematic.

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