Fun With Post Play ...

[BillyMac]

Is this post play legal? Observe the actions by the offensive and defensive players in the post. White No. 30 and Blue No. 15. Are the actions legal or illegal? If there is a foul, who commits the first foul?

https://storage.googleapis.com/refqu...pqDgIuGv8E.mp4

Three choices offered: There is no foul on this play, both players are equally responsible for the incidental contact. This is a foul on Blue No. 15. This is a foul on White No. 30.

My comment: This is a foul on Blue No. 15. Team control blocking foul (extended arm) on Blue #15.

Holding would probably be a better description than blocking.

[bob jenkins]

At the very beginning, white uses a knee to (slightly) displace blue.

Blue is "in danger of" committing a holding foul, but I don't think white really tries to front.

I'd vote incidental; I'm sure IAABO will disagree.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Holding would probably be a better description than blocking.

4-7: Blocking is illegal personal contact which impedes the progress of an opponent with or without the ball.

4-26: Holding is illegal personal contact with an opponent which interferes with his/her freedom of movement.

Blocking is more of a "body thing" and holding is more of a "hand thing"?

If so, what's an "arm thing"?

[JRutledge]

The issue is does the player try to get around the offensive player. It is debatable if that is taking place. But once he does try, that is a foul. Illegal ward-off all day.

Peace

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The issue is does the player try to get around the offensive player. It is debatable if that is taking place. But once he does try, that is a foul. Illegal ward-off all day.

Peace

+1. Enough doubt here that I think this is a good no-call. Also, the whole crew is very engaged in the play, moving to improve, etc. Makes any call or no-call that much more credible.


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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

... (slightly) displace ... "in danger of" ... don't think

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... debatable ...

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

... doubt ... call or no-call

Agree with all.

This is a tough one, and why basketball officials get paid the big bucks to make such decisions in a split second without the benefit of real time, or slow motion, replay.

[Terrapins Fan]

I would pass on a call here but I would speak to both players at the next opportunity and tell them to clean it up. If it continues, Double T.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I would pass on a call here but I would speak to both players at the next opportunity and tell them to clean it up.

Better than just passing. Been there. Done that.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I would pass on a call here but I would speak to both players at the next opportunity and tell them to clean it up. If it continues, Double T.

Double T?

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I would pass on a call here but I would speak to both players at the next opportunity and tell them to clean it up. If it continues, Double T.

Originally Posted by Raymond

Double T?

I've found that when I talk to players in situations like this that one often listens to me and the other often ignores me, usually leading to a common foul. Even when both ignore me, I'm now on the "lookout" and can spot the first illegal contact that occurs, usually leading to a common foul.

When I do charge double fouls in such post play situations, which is rarely, it's usually in response to overly aggressive illegal behavior from both players at the "get go" that can't be ignored, and requires more than just a warning to "cut it out".

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I've found that when I talk to players in situations like this that one often listens to me and the other often ignores me, usually leading to a common foul. Even when both ignore me, I'm now on the "lookout" and can spot the first illegal contact that occurs, usually leading to a common foul.

When I do charge double fouls in such post play situations, which is rarely, it's usually in response to overly aggressive illegal behavior from both players at the "get go" that can't be ignored, and requires more than just a simple warning to "cut it out".

Not sure what your response has to do with his statement and my question about a " Double T"

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Not sure what your response has to do with his statement and my question about a " Double T"

Warnings, in many instances don't always result in a double fouls.

Were you stressing the "technical" part, or the "double" part? I was addressing the "double" part.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Were you stressing the "technical" part, or the "double" part?

Went back and now I see it. Missed it earlier. Double personals (if one desires) rather than double technicals. Good point.

[BillyMac]

Disclaimer: For IAABO eyes only. Below is not a NFHS interpretation, it's only an IAABO International interpretation which obviously doesn't mean a hill of beans to most members of this Forum.

https://storage.googleapis.com/refqu...pqDgIuGv8E.mp4

IAABO International Play Commentary: Correct Answer: This is a foul on Blue No. 15.

In the low post area, Blue #15 uses his hands and arms to seal his defensive opponent and create a passing lane to receive the ball. As the possession begins, he slaps the extended arm of White #30 as he steps into the lane. Blue #15 extends his left arm behind him around the defender's torso, which enables him to determine where the opponent is positioned while he focuses on his teammate with the ball near the sideline. As the defender White #30 attempts to move to his right, Blue #15 extends his right arm into the defender's torso. When the defender moves to the left, Blue #15 extends and then his left arm horizontally into the defender's torso to maintain his position near the lane.

It is not legal to extend the arms fully or partially in a position other than vertical so that the freedom of movement of an opponent is hindered when contact with the arms occurs. (4-24-6) This action by Blue #15 is considered an illegal use of hands and arms, and a team control foul for holding should have been ruled on this play.

Here is the breakdown of the IAABO members that commented on the video: This is a foul on Blue No. 15 52% (including me); There is no foul on this play, both players are equally responsible for the incidental contact 43%; This is a foul on White No. 30 5%.