post play

[bbman]

Post play............A5 (on offense and playing in the post area), does not have the ball, and B5 (defending him), has a elbow on him (not extended). So far nothing. Ball gets thrown in to A5, B5 keeps his elbow on him (but not extended). Do we have a foul if B5 keeps his (unextended) elbow on A5?

Thanks in advance

[JRutledge]

If you mean that he happens to be touching him with the elbow or arm bar, then I would agree that is not likely a foul. But if it is being used in any way to either contact the post player, then I likely have a foul. It is really hard to say without actually seeing the action. I will give benefit of the doubt to a player that just has their arm in front of their body in a more natural movement, but when they extend at all, I have a foul.

Peace

Not sure why a defender would want to have his arm trapped between his and the post player's body so he couldn't raise it to block a shot, but I guess that's on him. What you describe sounds legal.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bbman

Post play............A5 (on offense and playing in the post area), does not have the ball, and B5 (defending him), has a elbow on him (not extended). So far nothing. Ball gets thrown in to A5, B5 keeps his elbow on him (but not extended). Do we have a foul if B5 keeps his (unextended) elbow on A5?

Thanks in advance

This is addressed specifically in the NCAA rule set, so I assume you are talking about NFHS rules. Does the FED differentiate between post players with the ball and other ball handlers, or all they all treated the same?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

This is addressed specifically in the NCAA rule set, so I assume you are talking about NFHS rules. Does the FED differentiate between post players with the ball and other ball handlers, or all they all treated the same?

They actually made an editorial change this year to say they are all treated the same.

[BlueDevilRef]

Our assn has made it clear that an arm bar extended is a foul. Arm bar next to body might be a foul here if they are trying to influence RSBQ, but it's more likely just poor defense


I wish I had a cool signature

[Dad]

Has to be an extended arm bar for an automatic foul. Wording was changed to make sure we apply post play to the rule.

10-6 ART. 12

The following acts constitute a foul when committed against a ball handler/dribbler. A player becomes a ball handler when he/she receives the ball. This would include a player in a post position

b. Placing an extended arm bar on the player.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Dad

Has to be an extended arm bar for an automatic foul. Wording was changed to make sure we apply post play to the rule.

10-6 ART. 12

The following acts constitute a foul when committed against a ball handler/dribbler. A player becomes a ball handler when he/she receives the ball. This would include a player in a post position

b. Placing an extended arm bar on the player.

And what does "extended" mean to everyone? I don't think everyone defines that the same.

To me, if the elbow is away from the body with the forearm on the opponent, it is extended....and becomes a foul if the opponent has the ball.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

And what does "extended" mean to everyone? I don't think everyone defines that the same.

To me, if the elbow is away from the body with the forearm on the opponent, it is extended....and becomes a foul if the opponent has the ball.

Agreed -- but I think we also need to emphasize "placing" as an intentional act (as opposed to merely "having" or "protecting")

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by just another ref

They actually made an editorial change this year to say they are all treated the same.

This was actually listed a rule change (which didn't change the rule at all).

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Agreed -- but I think we also need to emphasize "placing" as an intentional act (as opposed to merely "having" or "protecting")

Does it matter?'

If they have it up and the opponent moves into to, I give them a moment to retract it but they can't keep it there any more than they can stick an arm out to the side to restrict movement.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Does it matter?'

If they have it up and the opponent moves into to, I give them a moment to retract it but they can't keep it there any more than they can stick an arm out to the side to restrict movement.

Agree.

OP said wasn't extended so I left it up to his judgement.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Does it matter?'

I think so.

If the defense moves into the offense, then I use RSBQ to make any call.

If the offense "places" one of the four absolutes on the defense, then it's a foul without regard to RSBQ.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I think so.

If the defense moves into the offense, then I use RSBQ to make any call.

If the offense "places" one of the four absolutes on the defense, then it's a foul without regard to RSBQ.

If the defender has the arm up in the form of an arm bar, but short of contact and the offensive player backs into it, do you consider that "placing" if they don't drop it?

[Refhoop]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

If the defender has the arm up in the form of an arm bar, but short of contact and the offensive player backs into it, do you consider that "placing" if they don't drop it?

If I understand the rules correctly: Almost all touching of a ball handler is now a foul. Seems the consensus is that the game has gotten too rough; so calling LOTS of fouls is an attempt to return basketball to a finesse game again.
Though all my games thus far are going longer - I do like the emphasis on freedom of movement.
I'm hearing from assignors: 40 plus fouls a game is our new norm; coaches want and expect more fouls!
Whether this generation of players will adjust... that's another story!