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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 02, 2021, 10:59pm
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Drive & Push-Off

From JRut’s page. Thought it was a good one for discussion, especially in terms of positioning, believability, etc. But also in terms of “would you have called that in your game?”




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Old Sun Jan 03, 2021, 01:48am
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I am SO glad that this is getting called like this now. It hasn't been long since this was almost universally called a block despite the defender meeting all the requirements spelled out in the LGP rule. It is good that the "he wasn't set" mentality is almost completely gone.
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Old Sun Jan 03, 2021, 11:44am
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Unrelated to the call, the Lead should have aborted his rotation once A1 began his drive.
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Old Sun Jan 03, 2021, 11:46am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Unrelated to the call, the Lead should have aborted his rotation once A1 began his drive.
I agree.

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Old Sun Jan 03, 2021, 12:14pm
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Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
I am SO glad that this is getting called like this now. It hasn't been long since this was almost universally called a block despite the defender meeting all the requirements spelled out in the LGP rule. It is good that the "he wasn't set" mentality is almost completely gone.
Amen. I work with too many officials who would call this a block but it’s getting better.

When John Adams was the national coordinator he pushed for more blocks to be called which probably led to that mentality.

JD Collins, on the other hand, has pushed penalizing offense-initiated contact on legal defenders. That is the way it should be.
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Old Sun Jan 03, 2021, 12:28pm
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Would anyone have gone with a no-call here? That was my initial gut feeling. Certainly not a block, but I don’t think there’s clear advantage gained by the ball handler. I’m seeing more step-back here than leverage.

Corollary: In football, would this be enough for offensive pass interference? Probably not.


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Old Sun Jan 03, 2021, 12:45pm
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The Academy Award For Best Actor Goes To ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
Would anyone have gone with a no-call here ...I don’t think there’s clear advantage gained by the ball handler. I’m seeing more step-back here than leverage.
I was thinking the same thing myself, but I'm a high school official not familiar with what is deemed an advantage or a disadvantage in college games.

If this occurred in my high school game, it would be a tough call either way, player control, or incidental, because I'm not sure how much embellishment Red #11 added to the situation in an effort to get an Academy Award nomination.
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Old Sun Jan 03, 2021, 12:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
Would anyone have gone with a no-call here? That was my initial gut feeling. Certainly not a block, but I don’t think there’s clear advantage gained by the ball handler. I’m seeing more step-back here than leverage.

Corollary: In football, would this be enough for offensive pass interference? Probably not.
I think this was the proper call. For one it caused the ability to get an uncontested shot. So yes I think this needs to be called.

And as a football official, if your push causes that kind of separation, I am calling OPI. The contact was material and gave an advantage to make the play that was attempted. I like the call in either sport.

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Old Sun Jan 03, 2021, 04:11pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
Would anyone have gone with a no-call here? That was my initial gut feeling. Certainly not a block, but I don’t think there’s clear advantage gained by the ball handler. I’m seeing more step-back here than leverage.

Corollary: In football, would this be enough for offensive pass interference? Probably not.


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I don't think you can no-call this with that much use of the arm by the offensive player. He initiates the contact by putting his arm up, and then he extends his arm to create separation.

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Old Sun Jan 03, 2021, 06:07pm
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Extended Arm Bar ...

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Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
I don't think you can no-call this with that much use of the arm by the offensive player. He initiates the contact by putting his arm up, and then he extends his arm to create separation.
Good points.
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Old Mon Jan 04, 2021, 11:02am
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digest the entire action

1. I can see the dribbler's arm raised but is was "within his cylinder" when he came to a pull up motion stopping motion; however, I did not observe any 'extension' of said arm into the torso of defender. Couple these observations with the embellishment/faking of the defender being thrown off balance faking action--in summary I have 'nothing' here. Given the seniority and experience level of the writers on this forum I would hasten to say that all of you have seen this type of play in your officiating history. Play on players!

2. I can understand the chagrin of folks who want to see a PC here, but I have nothing here at the high school level of reffing a game--albeit NCAA and NBA may interps may yield a varying adjudication.
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Old Mon Jan 04, 2021, 11:16am
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That Is The Question (William Shakespeare) ...

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Originally Posted by Kansas Ref View Post
... I did not observe any 'extension' of said arm into the torso of defender ...
Look again, fifteen seconds in, and twenty-six seconds in (both are endline views).

He extends his arm bar.

While there definitely is "extension", the question is is there enough "extension" to create an illegal advantage?
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Old Mon Jan 04, 2021, 12:35pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas Ref View Post
1. I can see the dribbler's arm raised but is was "within his cylinder" when he came to a pull up motion stopping motion; however, I did not observe any 'extension' of said arm into the torso of defender. Couple these observations with the embellishment/faking of the defender being thrown off balance faking action--in summary I have 'nothing' here. Given the seniority and experience level of the writers on this forum I would hasten to say that all of you have seen this type of play in your officiating history. Play on players!

2. I can understand the chagrin of folks who want to see a PC here, but I have nothing here at the high school level of reffing a game--albeit NCAA and NBA may interps may yield a varying adjudication.
I don't want to see anything. I just look at video and describe what I see. I have an offensive foul in my high school and NCAA games, and have made this call at both levels.
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Old Mon Jan 04, 2021, 12:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas Ref View Post
1. I can see the dribbler's arm raised but is was "within his cylinder" when he came to a pull up motion stopping motion; however, I did not observe any 'extension' of said arm into the torso of defender. Couple these observations with the embellishment/faking of the defender being thrown off balance faking action--in summary I have 'nothing' here. Given the seniority and experience level of the writers on this forum I would hasten to say that all of you have seen this type of play in your officiating history. Play on players!

2. I can understand the chagrin of folks who want to see a PC here, but I have nothing here at the high school level of reffing a game--albeit NCAA and NBA may interps may yield a varying adjudication.
I am calling this at every level I work. High school and college.

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Old Mon Jan 04, 2021, 05:26pm
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I am calling this at every level I work. High school and below.
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