When you coming back?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Of greater concern, at least for many on the training level, should be how to teach officials the discipline of a patient whistle with these things, if they really are going to be used. Waiting for the first game to work out the kinks with what I predict will be a the scourge of wide-spread, immediate, impulsive playcalling, that'll be too late. Given that this is totally new territory, this is admittedly a totally unexplored area of concern. One or some of us really ought to dedicate some study to whether this concern is actually valid and come up with training strategies to counter what I fear will be a latent problem waiting in the wings. After years of teaching "patient whistle" with an actual whistle, I'm just not sure I've got it in me to initiate the study and strategies myself.

Easy, watch videos, and give presentations that address that very thing. Do you need only the court to do things like that in the first place? I will say this, I do not know that I ever got officials on a court to teach them something like that unless I was observing them. Officials are going to have to put in the work and do things to learn how to officiate as many veterans are taking the time to get better without an actual court. Never taught anyone only with an actual whistle for how to have a patient whistle, I just show them plays and situations where you can wait for the play to develop. It is more of a mental thing anyway I would think than a physical thing. If you do not know why you are calling something, I can show you something and it will not resonate.

Peace

[Texas Aggie]

My doctor told me that if all of those who were medically able, and of appropriate age, would simply wear a surgical mask all the time (or at least while indoors) when out in public (outside the family home) we would be a lot healthier and be able to fully restart our economy.

According to studies, masks are PRIMARILY (or I guess more is a better way to put it) effective in preventing those who have the disease from spreading it than they are in keeping those who don't have it from getting it. People who have been around a lot of people and in close contact or have tested positive should wear masks but those of us who aren't positive and aren't symptomatic are mostly wasting our time because other studies have shown that asymptomatic spread is largely a myth. MILD symptom spread happens, so if you have ANYTHING that COULD be related to Covid, you should definitely put a mask on if you go out in public, but I'm really not a big fan of the government telling me what I have to do after wrecking my business due to effectively closing a bunch of my clients' businesses. Sort of leaves a bad taste in my mouth if you get my drift.

Besides, if social distancing (which I practice religiously when I'm out, and my wife has seemed to practice our entire 2 and a half decades of marriage) works, why do we need the masks? If masks work, why do we need to social distance? When the whole thing started, the idea was to flatten the curve by slowing the rate of the spread of the disease so hospitals wouldn't be overrun; it WAS NOT to ELIMINATE the possibility of everyone getting sick. While I'm all for that if possible, I'm more for people not losing their livelihood. 30-80K die every year due to the normal flu. According to the CDC, as of this post, we've had approx. 130K deaths due to C19, and theres credible evidence that this number could be exaggerated. Even if it doubles this year (doubtful), we're looking at 3x the rate of our worst flu death rate. That's terrible, but the late '60s Hong Kong flu killed as many as 100K, and that was with a much lower US population (61 percent). Not the same, but not too far off. We've dealt with this before.

Your doc's assertion about starting the economy with masks is just wrong. Many states, including California, have mask requirements yet still don't allow some businesses to operate. Its funny that if you read the CA mask requirements and exemptions and then ask yourself, do all these individuals who are exempt just magically not have C19 or are somehow not able to either transmit the disease (or get sick)? Or, are the reasons for exemption more important than the requirement to begin with? Well, if they are more important, why isn't your's or my reasons for not wearing one important? At some point you have to ask: is this REALLY about health?

The answer, in my opinion, is no. You may disagree, of course, but I think the evidence is very clear.

If you or someone you live with has a condition that puts you at risk, stay home or mask up by all means. Take all the precautions necessary. Hell, call me if I'm around and I'll do whatever I can to help. But don't tell me how to live my life. I'm pretty healthy; I've had the flu once, maybe twice in my life and that's with minimal flu shots; I get a cold, if that, 2-3 times a decade and a sinus infection a couple of more times. I'm sorry; I'm not giving you the middle finger at all. I'm simply disgusted that a certain segment of society doesn't seem to flinch when power hungry politicians say the following:

-- liquor stores are essential and churches (among other places) aren't
-- alcoholics, etc., must be able to buy alcohol in liquor stores even though in places where there are liquor stores they can still buy beer/wine in grocery stores and convenience stores (liquor usually has higher taxes)
-- getting close to people at Walmart or the grocery store is fine and has little impact on disease spread but that's not true at restaurants
-- protesting or rioting over whatever issue is fine but attending a church service or political rally puts lives at risk
-- your health can be based solely on your political views according to some so-called doctors and health "professionals"

[JRutledge]

Yeah and Texas opened everything and you have had some of the highest numbers of cases in recent history.

Not sure what the point is. Because no one is telling anyone what to do to live. But if you want to play sports at this point, you better do something that is better or they will shut down things like high school sports because you do not want people to tell you, "How to live."

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

... studies have shown that asymptomatic spread is largely a myth.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the British Medical Journal Thorax (British Thoracic Society), and Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA), all say otherwise.

Check this out from the CNN website:

Earlier in this pandemic, scientists didn’t know how easily this new virus spreads between people without symptoms, nor did they know how long infectious particles could linger in the air. There was also a shortage of N95 respirators and face masks among health care workers who were quickly overwhelmed with Covid-19 patients.

But since then, the CDC, the US Surgeon General and other doctors have changed their recommendations and are now urging the widespread use of face masks.

The CDC now says the public needs to “cover your mouth and nose with a cloth face cover when around others.”

“Everyone should wear a cloth face cover when they have to go out in public, for example to the grocery store or to pick up other necessities,” the CDC said.

Scientists have made many recent discoveries about this new coronavirus, including:

It’s easy to spread this virus by just talking or breathing.

This coronavirus is highly contagious. Without mitigation efforts like stay-at-home orders, each person with coronavirus infects, on average, another two to three other people. That makes it twice as contagious as the flu.

This virus has a long incubation period – up to 14 days – giving a wide window of opportunity for people to infect others before they even know they’re infected.

Carriers may be most contagious in the 48 hours before they get symptoms, making transmission even more blind.

In other words, it’s not just people who are sneezing and coughing who can spread coronavirus. It’s often people who look completely normal and don’t have a fever.

If 95% of Americans wore face masks in public, it would save more than 33,000 lives by October 1, according to projections from the University of Washington’s Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation.

And check this out:

Journal of the American Medical Association
May 27, 2020
Comparison Of Clinical Characteristics Of Patients With Asymptomatic Vs Symptomatic Coronavirus Disease 2019 In Wuhan, China

... For the study, the researchers from Zhongnan Hospital of Wuhan University in China, where the virus was first identified, analyzed data from 78 cases of confirmed COVID-19. The cases were linked with 26 people exposed to the Hunan seafood market -- where the outbreak is believed to have originated -- or close contact with others who had been infected ...

... Although patients who were asymptomatic experienced less harm to themselves, they may have been unaware of their disease and therefore not isolated themselves or sought treatment, or they may have been overlooked by health care workers and thus unknowingly transmitted the virus to others ...

... Asymptomatic patients also shed virus, were contagious, for eight days, compared to 19 days in patients with outward symptoms, they said ...

... Although patients with milder, asymptomatic COVID-19 … may suffer less damage to their immune systems, they may still be contagious, but for less time than those with more serious illness, the authors concluded ...

... Therefore, identifying and isolating patients with asymptomatic COVID-19 as early as possible is critical to control the transmission of COVID-19 ...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

If masks work, why do we need to social distance? ... If you or someone you live with has a condition that puts you at risk, stay home or mask up by all means ...

Here in Connecticut we wear masks when we can't socially distance. I can easily socially distance when talking to neighbors outside (we can easily chat while ten feet apart), or when paddling with my kayak group, so I don't wear my mask. But it's difficult to socially distance when at the grocery store, so I wear my mask.

I'm not a hermit, but I still haven't gone back to the gym, or to church. These are not necessary activities for me, they're indoors, they might carry some inherent risk, and there are safer alternatives. Instead of the gym, I can walk, ride my bike, or paddle my kayak (all without a mask). Instead of going to church, I can view my local mass on the internet, and pray at home.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

For those who ... say that those who are at risk should stay home and shelter in place, many don't have that luxury. Maybe they're considered essential workers and have to work, or maybe they have to work to pay their bills, and are front-line workers that can't work from home.

Over the past week, I've taken two COVID-19 tests (one regular, one rapid). Both came back negative (or, as President Trump said, "I tested positively toward negative”). But that was just a snapshot in time. I will still wear my mask to protect others, at the grocery store because it's a private business and they can make their own rules to protect their employees (and other customers), and when I visit my adult children and grandchildren (including a newborn grandson) because I care about them.

Why did I have to take the rapid test (the one where they probe for the virus way up your nose into your brain)? Because the regular test was held up because the labs have been told to prioritize test results from Florida and Texas.

Thanks Texas. Because of you cowboys, I almost didn't have my colonoscopy procedure after doing all that horrible colon cleansing prep routine.

By the way, the probe way up my nose into my brain was more painful than the probe up my (it was a colonoscopy). Of course I was fast asleep for the later, and got some nice photos for my Christmas cards.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

... we're looking at 3x the rate of our worst flu death rate. That's terrible, but the late '60s Hong Kong flu killed as many as 100K, and that was with a much lower US population (61 percent). Not the same, but not too far off. We've dealt with this before.

Have we dealt with pandemics before? Yes.

Have we dealt with this virus and disease before? No we haven't.

It called the "novel" coronavirus because it's causing a brand new human disease (there are lots of coronaviruses). The disease is called COVID-19 because it was first discovered in humans in 2019.

It's not influenza. This is not your father's "grip".



Yes, our government leaders and medical leaders have the delicate balancing act of protecting both our health and our economy, but wearing a mask can be beneficial for our health and it won't hinder or delay the reopening of our economy.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... wear a damn surgical mask when out in public indoors, maybe even outdoors in a crowd (concert, athletic event, etc.). It's a cheap fix. It's an easy fix. It's common sense. It's science. We don't need anybody mandate that we must do this, let's just do it. Why not? What can go wrong? What's the downside? We all look foolish for several months?

[Texas Aggie]

Thanks Texas. Because of you cowboys, I almost didn't have my colonoscopy procedure after doing all that horrible colon cleansing prep routine.

You REALLY don't want me to say what I'm thinking.

For one, that's your hospital/doc's overreaction. Second, the numbers in Texas and Florida, according to the CDC, are in large part due to Northern coming down here over Memorial Day week. Source: https://thehill.com/changing-america...ting-the-south

Keep your smart ass and uneducated comments to yourself.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the British Medical Journal Thorax (British Thoracic Society), and Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA), all say otherwise.

Bullshit. The only actual "STUDY" you posted is laughable, considering it counted 78 cases. WHO has said virtually exactly what I wrote: asymptomatic spread is LARGELY a myth.

"Available evidence from contact tracing reported by countries suggests that asymptomatically infected individuals are much less likely to transmit the virus than those who develop symptoms."
WHO EMRO | Transmission of COVID-19 by asymptomatic cases | COVID-19 | Health topics

Give in to fear all you want.

[Texas Aggie]

Texas opened everything and you have had some of the highest numbers of cases in recent history.

I would encourage a little research before making assertions that aren't accurate, or at least incomplete or misleading.

First, Texas never really closed. That's a myth. Texas schools, restaurants (dine in), hair salons, and a few other similar places were closed in March by the Gov. but everything else was on a county by county basis. The LARGER counties did, for the most part, close dining in restaurants but frankly, little else. Walmart, Home Depot, etc. was still open and there was never any mask requirement. Hell, I was of the first persons that I saw actually wear a mask in Home Depot some time in late March only because there are a ton of people in there. The important thing to keep in mind here is that the vast majority of the state outside of the metro areas, with the exception of schools, barbers, and restaurants, behaved almost exactly as they did in January, February, and last year. Admittedly that's not tens of millions of people, but it isn't a small number either. Think Lubbock, Amarillo, Temple/Belton, San Angelo, Abilene, Tyler, Sherman/Denison, etc. At least half a million in population there. Maybe more, and that's just off the top of my head right now. To this day, almost all these areas have minimal numbers. Populated areas like Collin County, north of Dallas (cities of Plano, Frisco, McKinney), did not have any local restrictions in March and April and have not had elevated rates of infection, even today.

Second, Texas "opened" all but the schools in early May. Schools, of course, were closed, but there was still no firm mask requirement -- at least not state wide -- it was county by county. We went most of or all of May without any real spike in cases. On May 1, Texas had 29K cases; on May 31, it was 64K. Yes, that's doubled, but it is FAR less than the rate of growth in April where it went up 7 and a half fold!

Third, the case numbers didn't spike until the middle of June, well after "opening" (to the extent there was one) would have affected anything was done. Other factors, which I won't get into, have been looked into but can't be proven. But this disease doesn't have a 5 or 6 week incubation period. Based on when the spike started to occur, it appears the transmissions started accelerating around the very end of May until the first of June. You figure that out for yourself, but I ask you to use facts, data, and logic and not to blindly believe everything you hear in the media. Look at the actual numbers, not the rhetoric spouted off.

Fourth, the Texas numbers, even today, aren't THAT bad. Out of 2.9 million total tests, there are ONLY 282K total cases (less than half are active), and only 3432 deaths. Don't misunderstand: ONE death is tragic and 3432 is horrific. But New York had AT LEAST 18700 CONFIRMED deaths. That was with ONE MILLION FEWER people tested! So, other than deaths, we don't really even know what the New York REAL numbers are or would be.

Finally, there were at least 7 states that never "closed" by any definition. The numbers there (Arkansas, Utah, the Dakotas, Iowa, Nebraska, and Wyoming) never seemed to spike. Not exactly huge population centers, but Salt Lake, Little Rock, and Lincoln aren't holes in the ground and these people go other places (heck, they have to!).

So no, they aren't the "highest" numbers because New York death numbers blow Texas' away, and due to testing, we don't know what the real NY numbers are. Testing procedures are better now than they were in May; MUCH better than they were in March. There are a lot of rumors out there about tests and positives, but I won't get into that. Taking all these numbers at face value is more than sufficient for my point: "opening" up (however you want to define it) had NOTHING to do with the spike of cases, to the extent there is one.

Data source for Texas: https://txdshs.maps.arcgis.com/apps/...01e8b9cafc8b83

Data source for NY: https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data.page

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

... asymptomatic spread is LARGELY a myth.
"Available evidence from contact tracing reported by countries suggests that asymptomatically infected individuals are much less likely to transmit the virus than those who develop symptoms."WHO EMRO | Transmission of COVID-19 by asymptomatic cases | COVID-19 | Health topics

"Much less likely"? Sure I can go along with that. I would much rather be sitting on a bus next to someone who is completely asymptomatic (but who unknowingly has the virus) than to sit next to someone on a bus who is feverish and coughing (who has the virus).

But there are other scenarios, like if my bus mates wore masks. Even then, I would still prefer to sit next to the asymptomatic bus mate.

Here's more context:

A subset of studies and data shared by some countries on detailed cluster investigations and contact tracing activities have reported that asymptomatically-infected individuals are much less likely to transmit the virus than those who develop symptoms. Comprehensive studies on transmission from asymptomatic patients are difficult to conduct, as they require testing of large population cohorts and more data are needed to better understand and quantified the transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2. WHO is working with countries around the world, and global researchers, to gain better evidence-based understanding of the disease as a whole, including the role of asymptomatic patients in the transmission of the virus.

Also, the WHO data provided is a little bit dated (June 11, 2020) and was highly ridiculed by doctors, researchers, and other medical professionals. I believe that they have since come out a little stronger for asymptomatic and/or presymptomatic transmission.

With either asymptomatic or presymptomatic individuals, they both don't know that they have the disease, making transmission more likely if they don't socially distance, wear masks, and/or quarantine.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2020...c-covid-spread

While experts agree that people can pass COVID-19 without ever having symptoms ...

With the exceptions of those with Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease, Chronic Asthma, toddlers, and some others, what's the downside to simply wearing a mask?

[BillyMac]

From the NFHS:

... And these decisions must be made differently than the major conferences of the NCAA, or the NBA with its bubble concept or club sports that exist outside the school setting. High school sports are first and foremost education-based programs and complete the academic work during the school day; they do not exist in a vacuum as a training ground for future levels of sport.

Out-of-the-box thinking to provide sports opportunities for as many students as possible perhaps was best exhibited earlier this week by the California Interscholastic Federation (CIF). Due to increasing cases of the virus statewide and the cancellation of in-person classes in the Los Angeles and San Diego school districts for the remainder of the calendar year, the CIF pushed back the start of sports until December.

In order to offer all of its previously planned sports, the CIF is moving from three seasons to two, with typical winter and spring sports played during the same time period. While that small percentage of parents who only have their own interests in mind responded with comments such as “Two seasons – so now they have to pick a sport, this is terrible,’’ the majority were supportive, such as this high school coach: “The guys that are truly committed and take the right mindset will turn this into a positive.”

The Iowa High School Athletic Association (IHSAA) was the first state association to turn the challenge of the COVID-19 pandemic into a positive. Although there have been bumps along the way, most schools in Iowa have been able to conduct their normal summer baseball seasons, and the IHSAA state tournament is due to be completed in early August.

By following strict safety protocols, which sometimes included teams discontinuing their seasons if anyone tested positive for the virus, the IHSAA was able to persevere and became the first state to allow students to engage in activities since the shutdown in March. While it wasn’t exactly the same, and students, coaches and parents had to embrace change, the chance to participate made all the obstacles bearable.

In some states, the current levels of positive cases may push back the start of schools and sports, but there is a general belief that the “games will go on.” Whether the schedules have to be adjusted by a few weeks or a few months, state associations remain committed to offering as many activities as possible during the 2020-21 school year.

However, it will take a resolve on the part of everyone to keep going and keep trying. Where guidelines call for masks to be worn and social distancing to be followed, everyone must be working together.

We know that when circumstances change, we must embrace change ...

... We must keep the faith that high school sports and activities remain a part of students’ lives this year – in whatever new and creative ways surface in each state.