When you coming back?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

The masks protect others from the wearer.

Something that many can't seem to comprehend.

After having my appointment postponed once due to COVID-19, I had my six month checkup a few days ago (I'm a cardiac patient). My doctor told me that if all of those who were medically able, and of appropriate age, would simply wear a surgical mask all the time (or at least while indoors) when out in public (outside the family home) we would be a lot healthier and be able to fully restart our economy.

For many reasons, some simply can't wear a mask. But for many others, while they can wear a mask, they simply don't want to wear a mask, and refuse to wear a mask, putting the health and economy of the country at great risk, all because of their Constitutional right to have the freedom not to do what others (government leaders, medical experts) advise (or mandate) them to do.

General Welfare. The concern of the government for the health, peace, morality, and safety of its citizens. Providing for the welfare of the general public is a basic goal of government. The preamble to the U.S. Constitution cites promotion of the general welfare as a primary reason for the creation of the Constitution.

I wear a mask when I venture out of my bomb shelter once a week to hunt and gather food. I don't view it as a political statement but rather as a patriotic statement and as a religious statement.

Love your neighbor as yourself. (Mark 12:31)

MRNA vaccines, hydroxychloroquine, dexamethasone, N-95 masks, ventilators, differentiating essential and nonessential workers, restricting international and interstate travel, opening or closing schools, arguing over proper names for the virus and the disease, differentiating essential and nonessential activities, testing, contact tracing, hand sanitizer, disinfectant wipes, washing hands, debates over state governors taking over too much power, developing herd immunity, temperature checks, sneeze guards, pointing fingers at who caused this, etc., are all part of the equation, and may deserve a seat at the table, but a good start to digging ourselves out of this gigantic "plague" hole is just to wear a damn surgical mask when out in public indoors, maybe even outdoors in a crowd (concert, athletic event, etc.).

It's a cheap fix. It's an easy fix. It's common sense. It's science. We don't need anybody mandate that we must do this, let's just do it. Why not? What can go wrong? What's the downside? We all look foolish for several months?

Yeah, maybe years from now, historians will look back at this and say, "Look at those old photos of people wearing all those silly, stupid looking masks, making them all look weak and defenseless, acting like lemmings in the face of so-called experts, not knowing, as we now know today, that the virus would just simply go away all by itself in the July heat". If I'm still alive, I would be pleased to look at those old photos and laugh at myself. I might even roll around on the floor laughing my ass off.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

The masks protect others from the wearer.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Something that many can't seem to comprehend.

For those who can, but refuse to wear a mask, and say that those who are at risk should stay home and shelter in place, many don't have that luxury. Maybe they're considered essential workers and have to work, or maybe they have to work to pay their bills, and are front-line workers that can't work from home. And remember, those at risk workers wearing a mask doesn't do much to protect them, mask wearers do so to protect others, not themselves.

[MattReferee]

Now the % of C-19 Texas seems to be younger age groups and here comes the resurgent with our governor closing bars “curbside” only and 50% restaurant capacity gathering to NO more than 10 and local waterholes being SHUT down this isn’t a GOOD sign for anything positive and this smack Summer heat going on!!and the viruses kicking @$$ and taking names strong Honestly 90-110 days away from fall weather and the future of HS sports in my opinion should factor into this with safety and health being priority...I officiate because of the desire and love I have for each individual sport, but that doesn’t or won’t keep me safe or healthy from C-19 so with the new normal each state should rethink if kids and sports and US should take a break to control virus . Do we know truly enough about it and actually facts seriously doubt it . to many factors walking into a gym that was packed with students during schools hours and door handles officials changing rooms paperwork to fill out the athletes that will play seems a tad daunting....ha the new normal.....

[BillyMac]

As I ventured out of my bomb shelter to hunt and gather food a few days ago, I spotted a young man wearing a baseball uniform with grass stains on the knees. Maybe, at least here in Connecticut, there may be some light at the end of the tunnel.

[Paintguru]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

As I ventured out of my bomb shelter to hunt and gather food a few days ago, I spotted a young man wearing a baseball uniform with grass stains on the knees. Maybe, at least here in Connecticut, there may be some light at the end of the tunnel.

We've had travel baseball/softball going for about 2-3 weeks here in Michigan. Even before then, some teams ventured down to Ohio before that because Ohio was open before we were. Baseball is nice because the risk seems to be pretty low for transmission. I can't say people are socially distancing that well, but at least the kids are getting out to play.

Yesterday, our governor suggested to the MHSAA to swap football to the spring and other, less physical sports back to the fall. It sounds like it is the MHSAA's call on what to play when, unless we slide back to a point where we close down schools again, where no sports would happen. We'll see what happens since our cases have been creeping up a bit over the last week or two.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I've tried 3 of the electronic whistles. They may sound a little different but the ones I got were really close to a Fox 40. In fact, 2 of them were made by Fox 40
. They were just slightly quieter (as measured by my ears AND a sound meter).

They sound instantly when pressing the button, so there isn't any delay to speak of. In fact, they may have a bit better timing than air since, if you were exhaling at the point you needed a whistle, you have to breath in first before you can blow (much).

Also, the sound can be held at full volume while pressing the button. With air, the attack is sharp and loud but it is difficult to maintain peak volume and the level quickly falls below electronic whistle's level after a brief time....but usually longer than we normally need. It may be that the advantage of the standard whistle is the strong attack.

As for being able to grab the whistle through the mask, that means you'll be touching your mask countless times through the game. That, touching the mask, particularly over and over, is one of things that defeats the purpose of wearing one.

I listened to the Fox 40 and the Windsor electronic whistles on u tube. I actually thought the Windsor sounded more like our fox 40 air whistles. At this stage in Illinois air/blow whistles are not permitted. Might be a good idea to grab one in near future...

[SNIPERBBB]

I just wonder how many of these will sneak into the stands this winter...

[Freddy]

Of greater concern, at least for many on the training level, should be how to teach officials the discipline of a patient whistle with these things, if they really are going to be used. Waiting for the first game to work out the kinks with what I predict will be a the scourge of wide-spread, immediate, impulsive playcalling, that'll be too late. Given that this is totally new territory, this is admittedly a totally unexplored area of concern. One or some of us really ought to dedicate some study to whether this concern is actually valid and come up with training strategies to counter what I fear will be a latent problem waiting in the wings. After years of teaching "patient whistle" with an actual whistle, I'm just not sure I've got it in me to initiate the study and strategies myself.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Of greater concern, at least for many on the training level, should be how to teach officials the discipline of a patient whistle with these things, if they really are going to be used. Waiting for the first game to work out the kinks with what I predict will be a the scourge of wide-spread, immediate, impulsive playcalling, that'll be too late. Given that this is totally new territory, this is admittedly a totally unexplored area of concern. One or some of us really ought to dedicate some study to whether this concern is actually valid and come up with training strategies to counter what I fear will be a latent problem waiting in the wings. After years of teaching "patient whistle" with an actual whistle, I'm just not sure I've got it in me to initiate the study and strategies myself.

Easy, watch videos, and give presentations that address that very thing. Do you need only the court to do things like that in the first place? I will say this, I do not know that I ever got officials on a court to teach them something like that unless I was observing them. Officials are going to have to put in the work and do things to learn how to officiate as many veterans are taking the time to get better without an actual court. Never taught anyone only with an actual whistle for how to have a patient whistle, I just show them plays and situations where you can wait for the play to develop. It is more of a mental thing anyway I would think than a physical thing. If you do not know why you are calling something, I can show you something and it will not resonate.

Peace

[Texas Aggie]

My doctor told me that if all of those who were medically able, and of appropriate age, would simply wear a surgical mask all the time (or at least while indoors) when out in public (outside the family home) we would be a lot healthier and be able to fully restart our economy.

According to studies, masks are PRIMARILY (or I guess more is a better way to put it) effective in preventing those who have the disease from spreading it than they are in keeping those who don't have it from getting it. People who have been around a lot of people and in close contact or have tested positive should wear masks but those of us who aren't positive and aren't symptomatic are mostly wasting our time because other studies have shown that asymptomatic spread is largely a myth. MILD symptom spread happens, so if you have ANYTHING that COULD be related to Covid, you should definitely put a mask on if you go out in public, but I'm really not a big fan of the government telling me what I have to do after wrecking my business due to effectively closing a bunch of my clients' businesses. Sort of leaves a bad taste in my mouth if you get my drift.

Besides, if social distancing (which I practice religiously when I'm out, and my wife has seemed to practice our entire 2 and a half decades of marriage) works, why do we need the masks? If masks work, why do we need to social distance? When the whole thing started, the idea was to flatten the curve by slowing the rate of the spread of the disease so hospitals wouldn't be overrun; it WAS NOT to ELIMINATE the possibility of everyone getting sick. While I'm all for that if possible, I'm more for people not losing their livelihood. 30-80K die every year due to the normal flu. According to the CDC, as of this post, we've had approx. 130K deaths due to C19, and theres credible evidence that this number could be exaggerated. Even if it doubles this year (doubtful), we're looking at 3x the rate of our worst flu death rate. That's terrible, but the late '60s Hong Kong flu killed as many as 100K, and that was with a much lower US population (61 percent). Not the same, but not too far off. We've dealt with this before.

Your doc's assertion about starting the economy with masks is just wrong. Many states, including California, have mask requirements yet still don't allow some businesses to operate. Its funny that if you read the CA mask requirements and exemptions and then ask yourself, do all these individuals who are exempt just magically not have C19 or are somehow not able to either transmit the disease (or get sick)? Or, are the reasons for exemption more important than the requirement to begin with? Well, if they are more important, why isn't your's or my reasons for not wearing one important? At some point you have to ask: is this REALLY about health?

The answer, in my opinion, is no. You may disagree, of course, but I think the evidence is very clear.

If you or someone you live with has a condition that puts you at risk, stay home or mask up by all means. Take all the precautions necessary. Hell, call me if I'm around and I'll do whatever I can to help. But don't tell me how to live my life. I'm pretty healthy; I've had the flu once, maybe twice in my life and that's with minimal flu shots; I get a cold, if that, 2-3 times a decade and a sinus infection a couple of more times. I'm sorry; I'm not giving you the middle finger at all. I'm simply disgusted that a certain segment of society doesn't seem to flinch when power hungry politicians say the following:

-- liquor stores are essential and churches (among other places) aren't
-- alcoholics, etc., must be able to buy alcohol in liquor stores even though in places where there are liquor stores they can still buy beer/wine in grocery stores and convenience stores (liquor usually has higher taxes)
-- getting close to people at Walmart or the grocery store is fine and has little impact on disease spread but that's not true at restaurants
-- protesting or rioting over whatever issue is fine but attending a church service or political rally puts lives at risk
-- your health can be based solely on your political views according to some so-called doctors and health "professionals"

[JRutledge]

Yeah and Texas opened everything and you have had some of the highest numbers of cases in recent history.

Not sure what the point is. Because no one is telling anyone what to do to live. But if you want to play sports at this point, you better do something that is better or they will shut down things like high school sports because you do not want people to tell you, "How to live."

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

... studies have shown that asymptomatic spread is largely a myth.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the British Medical Journal Thorax (British Thoracic Society), and Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA), all say otherwise.

Check this out from the CNN website:

Earlier in this pandemic, scientists didn’t know how easily this new virus spreads between people without symptoms, nor did they know how long infectious particles could linger in the air. There was also a shortage of N95 respirators and face masks among health care workers who were quickly overwhelmed with Covid-19 patients.

But since then, the CDC, the US Surgeon General and other doctors have changed their recommendations and are now urging the widespread use of face masks.

The CDC now says the public needs to “cover your mouth and nose with a cloth face cover when around others.”

“Everyone should wear a cloth face cover when they have to go out in public, for example to the grocery store or to pick up other necessities,” the CDC said.

Scientists have made many recent discoveries about this new coronavirus, including:

It’s easy to spread this virus by just talking or breathing.

This coronavirus is highly contagious. Without mitigation efforts like stay-at-home orders, each person with coronavirus infects, on average, another two to three other people. That makes it twice as contagious as the flu.

This virus has a long incubation period – up to 14 days – giving a wide window of opportunity for people to infect others before they even know they’re infected.

Carriers may be most contagious in the 48 hours before they get symptoms, making transmission even more blind.

In other words, it’s not just people who are sneezing and coughing who can spread coronavirus. It’s often people who look completely normal and don’t have a fever.

If 95% of Americans wore face masks in public, it would save more than 33,000 lives by October 1, according to projections from the University of Washington’s Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation.

And check this out:

Journal of the American Medical Association
May 27, 2020
Comparison Of Clinical Characteristics Of Patients With Asymptomatic Vs Symptomatic Coronavirus Disease 2019 In Wuhan, China

... For the study, the researchers from Zhongnan Hospital of Wuhan University in China, where the virus was first identified, analyzed data from 78 cases of confirmed COVID-19. The cases were linked with 26 people exposed to the Hunan seafood market -- where the outbreak is believed to have originated -- or close contact with others who had been infected ...

... Although patients who were asymptomatic experienced less harm to themselves, they may have been unaware of their disease and therefore not isolated themselves or sought treatment, or they may have been overlooked by health care workers and thus unknowingly transmitted the virus to others ...

... Asymptomatic patients also shed virus, were contagious, for eight days, compared to 19 days in patients with outward symptoms, they said ...

... Although patients with milder, asymptomatic COVID-19 … may suffer less damage to their immune systems, they may still be contagious, but for less time than those with more serious illness, the authors concluded ...

... Therefore, identifying and isolating patients with asymptomatic COVID-19 as early as possible is critical to control the transmission of COVID-19 ...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

If masks work, why do we need to social distance? ... If you or someone you live with has a condition that puts you at risk, stay home or mask up by all means ...

Here in Connecticut we wear masks when we can't socially distance. I can easily socially distance when talking to neighbors outside (we can easily chat while ten feet apart), or when paddling with my kayak group, so I don't wear my mask. But it's difficult to socially distance when at the grocery store, so I wear my mask.

I'm not a hermit, but I still haven't gone back to the gym, or to church. These are not necessary activities for me, they're indoors, they might carry some inherent risk, and there are safer alternatives. Instead of the gym, I can walk, ride my bike, or paddle my kayak (all without a mask). Instead of going to church, I can view my local mass on the internet, and pray at home.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

For those who ... say that those who are at risk should stay home and shelter in place, many don't have that luxury. Maybe they're considered essential workers and have to work, or maybe they have to work to pay their bills, and are front-line workers that can't work from home.

Over the past week, I've taken two COVID-19 tests (one regular, one rapid). Both came back negative (or, as President Trump said, "I tested positively toward negative”). But that was just a snapshot in time. I will still wear my mask to protect others, at the grocery store because it's a private business and they can make their own rules to protect their employees (and other customers), and when I visit my adult children and grandchildren (including a newborn grandson) because I care about them.

Why did I have to take the rapid test (the one where they probe for the virus way up your nose into your brain)? Because the regular test was held up because the labs have been told to prioritize test results from Florida and Texas.

Thanks Texas. Because of you cowboys, I almost didn't have my colonoscopy procedure after doing all that horrible colon cleansing prep routine.

By the way, the probe way up my nose into my brain was more painful than the probe up my (it was a colonoscopy). Of course I was fast asleep for the later, and got some nice photos for my Christmas cards.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

... we're looking at 3x the rate of our worst flu death rate. That's terrible, but the late '60s Hong Kong flu killed as many as 100K, and that was with a much lower US population (61 percent). Not the same, but not too far off. We've dealt with this before.

Have we dealt with pandemics before? Yes.

Have we dealt with this virus and disease before? No we haven't.

It called the "novel" coronavirus because it's causing a brand new human disease (there are lots of coronaviruses). The disease is called COVID-19 because it was first discovered in humans in 2019.

It's not influenza. This is not your father's "grip".



Yes, our government leaders and medical leaders have the delicate balancing act of protecting both our health and our economy, but wearing a mask can be beneficial for our health and it won't hinder or delay the reopening of our economy.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... wear a damn surgical mask when out in public indoors, maybe even outdoors in a crowd (concert, athletic event, etc.). It's a cheap fix. It's an easy fix. It's common sense. It's science. We don't need anybody mandate that we must do this, let's just do it. Why not? What can go wrong? What's the downside? We all look foolish for several months?

[Texas Aggie]

Thanks Texas. Because of you cowboys, I almost didn't have my colonoscopy procedure after doing all that horrible colon cleansing prep routine.

You REALLY don't want me to say what I'm thinking.

For one, that's your hospital/doc's overreaction. Second, the numbers in Texas and Florida, according to the CDC, are in large part due to Northern coming down here over Memorial Day week. Source: https://thehill.com/changing-america...ting-the-south

Keep your smart ass and uneducated comments to yourself.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the British Medical Journal Thorax (British Thoracic Society), and Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA), all say otherwise.

Bullshit. The only actual "STUDY" you posted is laughable, considering it counted 78 cases. WHO has said virtually exactly what I wrote: asymptomatic spread is LARGELY a myth.

"Available evidence from contact tracing reported by countries suggests that asymptomatically infected individuals are much less likely to transmit the virus than those who develop symptoms."
WHO EMRO | Transmission of COVID-19 by asymptomatic cases | COVID-19 | Health topics

Give in to fear all you want.