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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 18, 2020, 07:06pm
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Camps this Offseason

Fellow Officials! Many of us have registered for camps this offseason hoping to improve our skills, get exposure to assigners, and/or get hired at a higher level. Unfortunately, because of the COVID-19 pandemic, many camps have been postponed or cancelled. What do assigners do if their camps get cancelled?

I'm curious, because I'd like to know what will happen. I've registered for 2 teaching camps and 3 tryout camps. One tryout camp is cancelled, one teaching camp is cancelled, and the rest are undetermined. I've also been invited by one of my high school associations into an evaluation and promotion program, but I'm waiting on if that will actually happen. If camps don't happen, how do assigners assess new officials to hire them?
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Old Mon May 18, 2020, 07:13pm
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Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
If camps don't happen, how do assigners assess new officials to hire them?
At the college level, they don't. And they don't need to in most cases. The majority of college assigners have more officials on their rosters than they truly need to cover their games. The camps are merely money-makers under the guise of training and evaluation, and normally a handful of newbies get picked up. No camp just means they likely won't hire new guys this offseason (and, of course, will miss out on the profits of camp).

But, if an assigner truly does need or wants to hire additional officials, he/she will have "trusted advisers" who can attest to a prospective official's ability (or lack thereof). I know one guy who is getting in a league by word of mouth for 2020-21, and I would assume the expectation will be that he attends camp in 2021.

Maybe this pandemic will blow up the camp racket. I won't hold my breath though.

Last edited by SC Official; Mon May 18, 2020 at 07:21pm.
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Old Mon May 18, 2020, 09:24pm
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It is going to be very difficult for any college assignor to hire people he or she has never seen before. They might be able to take the word of some people that are on staff or they respect or ask for some recommendations, but that is a very hard thing to expect because there is so much at stake and that applies to all levels of college. Now a high school situation might be a little different as there are likely people that you would work for that have seen you work on some level. But not sure how that is going. Heck we are still trying to figure out if we are going to have a season, so it might not even matter at this point.

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Old Tue May 19, 2020, 06:20am
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Staffs are going to be reduced. Also there's talk of rolling back game fees because of financial strains on the colleges and universities.

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Old Tue May 19, 2020, 07:43am
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Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Staffs are going to be reduced. Also there's talk of rolling back game fees because of financial strains on the colleges and universities.

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Not to mention the possibility that schools will cut basketball altogether.
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Old Tue May 19, 2020, 11:36am
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Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Staffs are going to be reduced. Also there's talk of rolling back game fees because of financial strains on the colleges and universities.
Do you mean D1 staffs? Or staffs in general?

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Old Tue May 19, 2020, 12:47pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Do you mean D1 staffs? Or staffs in general?



Peace
I know my D1 supervisor is dropping more than he'll hire, that's if he hires anybody. I'll probably be on the cut list because of my age and recent injury.

I have my thoughts on what's going to go on but I don't want to get into all the politics.

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Old Tue May 19, 2020, 11:58pm
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Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Staffs are going to be reduced. Also there's talk of rolling back game fees because of financial strains on the colleges and universities.

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Officials should only be okay with that if the assignors/conference supervisors, university athletic directors, and coaches all take the same pay cut.
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Old Wed May 20, 2020, 12:02am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
Fellow Officials! Many of us have registered for camps this offseason hoping to improve our skills, get exposure to assigners, and/or get hired at a higher level. Unfortunately, because of the COVID-19 pandemic, many camps have been postponed or cancelled. What do assigners do if their camps get cancelled?

I'm curious, because I'd like to know what will happen. I've registered for 2 teaching camps and 3 tryout camps. One tryout camp is cancelled, one teaching camp is cancelled, and the rest are undetermined. I've also been invited by one of my high school associations into an evaluation and promotion program, but I'm waiting on if that will actually happen. If camps don't happen, how do assigners assess new officials to hire them?
Camps are not necessary for hiring. Recommendations to a supervisor or that person or his designee observing the official elsewhere can suffice. Camps are simply a way for supervisors to make money and if it could be demonstrated that they are essentially a kickback to the person doing the hiring, then the system would be illegal under federal law.
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Old Wed May 20, 2020, 07:09am
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Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Officials should only be okay with that if the assignors/conference supervisors, university athletic directors, and coaches all take the same pay cut.

I agree in principle, but it’s a principle we don’t have the leverage to stand on. Whether we like to admit it or not, the price point for our service is pretty low.

That said, I don’t see the D3/D2 arena with much wiggle room. Those game fees coupled with the travel and time commitments are already rock bottom. If you lower them any more you might retain the D1 dreamers but you’ll lose your veterans. And as NASO data readily show, there aren’t many dreamers left coming up through the HS level to replace them.


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Old Wed May 20, 2020, 07:50am
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Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
I agree in principle, but it’s a principle we don’t have the leverage to stand on. Whether we like to admit it or not, the price point for our service is pretty low.

That said, I don’t see the D3/D2 arena with much wiggle room. Those game fees coupled with the travel and time commitments are already rock bottom. If you lower them any more you might retain the D1 dreamers but you’ll lose your veterans. And as NASO data readily show, there aren’t many dreamers left coming up through the HS level to replace them.


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I disagree. There will always be enough officials who will do whatever it takes to call themselves "college officials" and get as many games as possible. There's nothing wrong with that necessarily, but it does mean that a decrease in game fees likely isn't going to affect the makeup of an overall staff for a particular league.
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Old Wed May 20, 2020, 08:59am
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Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Camps are not necessary for hiring. Recommendations to a supervisor or that person or his designee observing the official elsewhere can suffice. Camps are simply a way for supervisors to make money and if it could be demonstrated that they are essentially a kickback to the person doing the hiring, then the system would be illegal under federal law.
I understand assigners, especially at the college level, wanting to personally see an official before hiring. But they should not be charging more for camp than to cover their costs, or the conference should cover those costs. I just can't believe conference commissioners have sat back and allowed the current racket to happen when they are already paying assigners for exactly the same thing assigners charge prospective officials and arm and a leg for. Common sense would say they are getting ripped off.
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Old Wed May 20, 2020, 10:43am
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Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
I disagree. There will always be enough officials who will do whatever it takes to call themselves "college officials" and get as many games as possible. There's nothing wrong with that necessarily, but it does mean that a decrease in game fees likely isn't going to affect the makeup of an overall staff for a particular league.
There are certainly fewer slots. And working a single college game does not make you a college official. Working multiple weekends and likely multiple conferences really makes you a college official. But again this is very much subjected to where you are in the country. Some areas like my area has several schools all over the place at different levels. You might live in an area where you only have a D2 conference and it is spread out all over the place.

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Old Wed May 20, 2020, 10:47am
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
There are certainly fewer slots. And working a single college game does not make you a college official. Working multiple weekends and likely multiple conferences really makes you a college official. But again this is very much subjected to where you are in the country. Some areas like my area has several schools all over the place at different levels. You might live in an area where you only have a D2 conference and it is spread out all over the place.

Peace
Not really interested in the definition of a college official.

My point was that there is plenty of supply for college basketball and lower demand. A decrease in game fees is unlikely to change that, not unless you're talking getting down close to HS fees.

Whereas in high school it's not uncommon for demand to be greater than supply. Depending on your geographic area, of course.
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Old Wed May 20, 2020, 10:48am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
I understand assigners, especially at the college level, wanting to personally see an official before hiring. But they should not be charging more for camp than to cover their costs, or the conference should cover those costs. I just can't believe conference commissioners have sat back and allowed the current racket to happen when they are already paying assigners for exactly the same thing assigners charge prospective officials and arm and a leg for. Common sense would say they are getting ripped off.
Regardless of whether you agree with or not, you are being charged for their time and their service. After all you should go to camps with the idea you are going to learn something. If your only goal is to only get hired, you are doing it wrong. Also the better camps that cost the most money, often have several people on their staff or retired officials that have a lot of knowledge, they are sitting all day to watch you work a game to give you some information. And they are asked to tell the assignor who they should consider.

If we don't like the camp system, what is the solution? If you want people hired simply off of recommendations and not seeing them work or only watch someone on film (which everyone cannot get for their games), then we would complain who is getting hired.

Peace
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