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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 08, 2020, 07:29pm
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Is This What It's All About?

I had trouble identifying the relevance of this discussion, maybe because I don't do NCAA. But I remember one call that happened late this past season that I made a clip of. This is a very good official who, though he's registered as a high school referee, does mostly NCAA-M; I was fortunate to get him to fill in the day before for an injured partner. Solid official, no doubt. This particular ruling was obviously intended to be a block but was just as obviously misinterpreted by most others involved.
Does this illustrate what all this is all about? (I don't recall this topic being an issue with NFHS-oriented officials)
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 08, 2020, 08:35pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
I had trouble identifying the relevance of this discussion, maybe because I don't do NCAA. But I remember one call that happened late this past season that I made a clip of. This is a very good official who, though he's registered as a high school referee, does mostly NCAA-M; I was fortunate to get him to fill in the day before for an injured partner. Solid official, no doubt. This particular ruling was obviously intended to be a block but was just as obviously misinterpreted by most others involved.
Does this illustrate what all this is all about? (I don't recall this topic being an issue with NFHS-oriented officials)
If he had given a preliminary blocking signal like 99.9% of officials do on block/charge plays there would have been no confusion.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 08, 2020, 08:37pm
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Originally Posted by jakeas2 View Post
I know that the punch wasn't the approved mechanic, but to me it is a much stronger signal. Some instances in a game need a strong emphatic call. You can do that with the block, but without using a punch, I'm not sure a hand behind the head gives that strong look on a PCF. Just my opinion. Curious what others think?

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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Thu Apr 09, 2020, 05:10am
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Holding ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
If he had given a preliminary blocking signal like 99.9% of officials do on block/charge plays there would have been no confusion.
He actually reported a holding foul.

Looks like he reported a two digit (maybe 14) offender, which would have been the player to the shooter's right, rather than the single digit (maybe 3) player in front of the shooter (who took the brunt of the shooter's forward momentum and ended up on the floor).
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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Apr 09, 2020 at 05:21am.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Thu Apr 09, 2020, 10:16am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
It's my favorite signal. The most exciting and best call in basketball, maybe the most exciting and best call in all of sports. It's poetry in motion. It doesn't get any better than that. I can wax on for a lot longer.
Of course, that all goes down the toilet if I'm the lead (Mutt) and I don't see the ball go in my peripheral vision, and my partner (Jeff) doesn't realize that I didn't see the ball go in (or doesn't bother to look for it).

Worked with a rookie this past season who didn't know if the ball was inflated or stuffed. I made it all the way to the reporting area having no idea that the ball went in. Of course I didn't count the basket and reported two free throws.

Offended coach yelled, "Why didn't the basket count?". Went back to my partner, "Did the ball go in the basket?". Partner replied "I don't know". Went back to the table, asked them, and they replied that the ball went in.

If there had been a hole in the court, I would have crawled into it.

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Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Apr 11, 2020 at 10:15am.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Thu Apr 09, 2020, 10:52am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
I had trouble identifying the relevance of this discussion, maybe because I don't do NCAA. But I remember one call that happened late this past season that I made a clip of. This is a very good official who, though he's registered as a high school referee, does mostly NCAA-M; I was fortunate to get him to fill in the day before for an injured partner. Solid official, no doubt. This particular ruling was obviously intended to be a block but was just as obviously misinterpreted by most others involved.
Does this illustrate what all this is all about? (I don't recall this topic being an issue with NFHS-oriented officials)
Do you also go opposite table after reporting a foul in your area?
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Thu Apr 09, 2020, 02:55pm
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Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Do you also go opposite table after reporting a foul in your area?
Yes, beginning this past season. Back to what it was in 2006 or so.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 12, 2020, 11:13am
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Jay Bilas is smiling ear to ear upon this decision. His lack of knowledge on LGP and what is block vs charge will drive me crazy forever. I will be paraphrasing my statement, but many times he has said if the NCAA would get rid of the punch signal, there would be far fewer charge calls because officials like to show off making the signal. I know I am preaching to the crowd here, but I can't help but wonder if his clamoring didn't get into the head of JD.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 12, 2020, 11:30am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remington View Post
Jay Bilas is smiling ear to ear upon this decision. His lack of knowledge on LGP and what is block vs charge will drive me crazy forever. I will be paraphrasing my statement, but many times he has said if the NCAA would get rid of the punch signal, there would be far fewer charge calls because officials like to show off making the signal. I know I am preaching to the crowd here, but I can't help but wonder if his clamoring didn't get into the head of JD.
I'm going to take a wild guess and say that Bilas had zero to do with this.

And the punch has never been the approved PCF signal. I see many theatrical PCF mechanics that don't even involve a punch.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 12, 2020, 12:58pm
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There's No Business Like Show Business (Ethel Merman, 1946) ...

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Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
... theatrical ...
Great description of many player control foul signals.



Of course, my "count it and one" signal is also theatrical, but it's classy Broadway theatrical, and it's by the script, as Irving Berlin, Richard Rodgers, and Oscar Hammerstein intended.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Apr 12, 2020 at 02:04pm.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 12, 2020, 04:39pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remington View Post
Jay Bilas is smiling ear to ear upon this decision. His lack of knowledge on LGP and what is block vs charge will drive me crazy forever. I will be paraphrasing my statement, but many times he has said if the NCAA would get rid of the punch signal, there would be far fewer charge calls because officials like to show off making the signal. I know I am preaching to the crowd here, but I can't help but wonder if his clamoring didn't get into the head of JD.
Well JD does not make the decision, the CCA Committee does. I also doubt they care what Bilas does as well. Bilas gets mocked in many conversations by those that are in officiating circles that make decisions.

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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 12, 2020, 11:56pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Well JD does not make the decision, the CCA Committee does. I also doubt they care what Bilas does as well. Bilas gets mocked in many conversations by those that are in officiating circles that make decisions.

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Do you really think the CCA gets into mechanics?
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 13, 2020, 09:19am
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Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Do you really think the CCA gets into mechanics?
It is called the CCA Men's Basketball Officiating Manual and it is not available through the NCAA Arbiter publications link, so who should we put the onus on? JD Collins is one of 10 members of the CCA Mechanics Manual Committee, which produces the manual.
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Last edited by Raymond; Mon Apr 13, 2020 at 09:32am.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 13, 2020, 11:45am
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Originally Posted by Remington View Post
...but many times he has said if the NCAA would get rid of the punch signal, there would be far fewer charge calls because officials like to show off making the signal
Someone please cue Dee Kantner.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 13, 2020, 12:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
It is called the CCA Men's Basketball Officiating Manual and it is not available through the NCAA Arbiter publications link, so who should we put the onus on? JD Collins is one of 10 members of the CCA Mechanics Manual Committee, which produces the manual.
Fair enough, but I'm guessing it isn't the coaches, AD's, or conference commissioners that actually have much, if any, say in mechanics. They probably rubber stamp what some official or set of officials propose in that area.
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Last edited by Camron Rust; Mon Apr 13, 2020 at 06:25pm.
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