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Old Tue Apr 07, 2020, 01:02pm
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NCAA-M Summer Teaching Points/Mechanic Change

Purists will love this...

1. Mechanics change:
• The Mechanics Committee has eliminated the closed fist “air punch” signal during a player control foul. The proper mechanic should be 1) Stop the clock; 2) Point to the other end; 3) Place a hand behind your head signaling a player control foul. Too many times when an official used the “air punch” with a closed fist, it was misinterpreted for a “count the basket signal.”


It's funny, the closed fist has never been the "approved" player control foul signal in NFHS or NCAA-M. So I would not really consider this a "change" though certainly it will be a habit many officials will have to break. That said, except in maybe a couple instances, I've never confused a player control foul for an and-1 (and I do not use a closed fist on and-1's). If someone observing you can't differentiate between the two, they either need glasses or you need better signals.
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Old Tue Apr 07, 2020, 02:03pm
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I know that the punch wasn't the approved mechanic, but to me it is a much stronger signal. Some instances in a game need a strong emphatic call. You can do that with the block, but without using a punch, I'm not sure a hand behind the head gives that strong look on a PCF. Just my opinion. Curious what others think?
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Old Tue Apr 07, 2020, 02:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakeas2 View Post
I know that the punch wasn't the approved mechanic, but to me it is a much stronger signal. Some instances in a game need a strong emphatic call. You can do that with the block, but without using a punch, I'm not sure a hand behind the head gives that strong look on a PCF. Just my opinion. Curious what others think?
I never give "hand behind the head" at the spot. Only at the table. I agree that it's a weak signal, but that's what JDC wants apparently.

I also don't "punch" on PCFs (or TCFs for that matter). Fist up, point (sometimes verbalize "offense" or "illegal"). Sometimes I give it a little more emphasis, but most fouls do not need to be "sold." And punching was a pet peeve of someone I once worked for so I never got in the habit of it. That same supervisor also did not like unnecessary selling of garden-variety calls.

Since I will not be in contention for the NCAA Tournament any time soon, I will probably continue my normal sequence unless I get instructed otherwise by someone who matters to me.
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Old Wed Apr 08, 2020, 09:22am
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Someone please tell me this is a late April Fools joke. Hand behind the head is THE WEAKEST signal in all of sports.
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Old Wed Apr 08, 2020, 09:30am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
Someone please tell me this is a late April Fools joke. Hand behind the head is THE WEAKEST signal in all of sports.
I agree.

NCAA-W punches on everything and this hasn't been an issue.
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Old Wed Apr 08, 2020, 10:25am
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Turned A Blind Eye ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
Someone please tell me this is a late April Fools joke. Hand behind the head is THE WEAKEST signal in all of sports.
Wonder why the hand behind the head signal has been, and still is, around, unchanged, for forty years in high school games (NFHS and/or IAABO)?

Observers and evaluators in my little corner of Connecticut have always turned a blind eye to the use of any player control foul signal, which is probably why in a local board of 325 officials we have dozens of different player control foul signals.

The emphasis had always been on understanding the block/charge rule, anticipating the play, avoiding double whistles with preliminary signals, and making the correct call; not on the proper signal.

Of course the signal is the least important aspect of a black/charge play.

That leaves the player control foul signal up to each official's personal preference, often based on what young inexperienced officials observe veteran officials doing in varsity games (or in televised college games), liking it, and copying it.



I've had four different interpreters (training leaders) in forty years, all excellent, and not one has addressed player control foul signals.

I honestly think that they have purposely avoided the issue, afraid that veteran officials would revolt.

On my local board, player control foul signals rank right up there with equipment issues as the most inconsistent things that we do.

Want me to not enforce undershirt rules in a subvarsity game? Tell me, just tell me, and I'll do it.

Want me to use a team control foul punch for both player control and team control fouls? Tell me, just tell me, and I'll do it.

Don't have to standardize the entire world, I'll settle for just my little corner of Connecticut.

Why beat around the bush?

I usually do what I'm told to do by someone in authority.

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Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Apr 08, 2020 at 01:59pm.
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Old Wed Apr 08, 2020, 01:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
Purists will love this...

1. Mechanics change:
• The Mechanics Committee has eliminated the closed fist “air punch” signal during a player control foul. The proper mechanic should be 1) Stop the clock; 2) Point to the other end; 3) Place a hand behind your head signaling a player control foul. Too many times when an official used the “air punch” with a closed fist, it was misinterpreted for a “count the basket signal.”
Why would it be misinterpreted for a "count the basket signal" when no closed fist is to be used in that situation? The NFHS signal is an open hand faced down.

Oh yea, now I know why, officials have been doing it incorrectly for a long time. They will probably do something similar with all of the incorrect signals that officials use for illegal use of hands, lol.
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Old Wed Apr 08, 2020, 02:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
Someone please tell me this is a late April Fools joke. Hand behind the head is THE WEAKEST signal in all of sports.
What is weak about it? They are telling us if I am reading it right to give a point and a signal special to a PC foul.

Peace
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Old Wed Apr 08, 2020, 02:27pm
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Case in point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
Why would it be misinterpreted for a "count the basket signal" when no closed fist is to be used in that situation? The NFHS signal is an open hand faced down.

Oh yea, now I know why, officials have been doing it incorrectly for a long time. They will probably do something similar with all of the incorrect signals that officials use for illegal use of hands, lol.
Here is why they likely changed this mechanic to some extent.



Peace
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Old Wed Apr 08, 2020, 02:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
Why would it be misinterpreted for a "count the basket signal" when no closed fist is to be used in that situation? The NFHS signal is an open hand faced down.

Oh yea, now I know why, officials have been doing it incorrectly for a long time. They will probably do something similar with all of the incorrect signals that officials use for illegal use of hands, lol.

It has been confused on occasion (video just posted by Jeff, e.g.).

Whether the hand is open or closed on these signals is probably too small of a detail to really differentiate between them for most that are observing the signal (and I'm speaking of fans, coaches, etc., not other officials).
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Old Wed Apr 08, 2020, 03:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Here is why they likely changed this mechanic to some extent.
Did they really change the mechanic or just reinforce that the punch is not the approved signal for PCFs and decide they're going to be sticklers come tourney time?
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Old Wed Apr 08, 2020, 03:37pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
Why would it be misinterpreted for a "count the basket signal" when no closed fist is to be used in that situation? The NFHS signal is an open hand faced down.

Oh yea, now I know why, officials have been doing it incorrectly for a long time. They will probably do something similar with all of the incorrect signals that officials use for illegal use of hands, lol.
"Officials have been doing it incorrectly for a long time" because everyone knows the "score the goal" signal is the dumbest in the book but the NFHS won't bother to update it.
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Old Wed Apr 08, 2020, 03:50pm
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Let's Go To The Videotape ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Here is why they likely changed this mechanic to some extent.
Thanks JRutledge. Great video. Very relevant.
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Old Wed Apr 08, 2020, 04:10pm
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And One ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
... because everyone knows the "score the goal" signal is the dumbest in the book but the NFHS won't bother to update it.
What? It's my favorite signal. The most exciting and best call in basketball, maybe the most exciting and best call in all of sports.

I'm not bashful, I always sound a loud whistle. My fist is up in air for the foul call. Everybody is looking at me, that's right, me, BillyMac. Everybody. It's all about me for a second. The crowd is on the edge of their seats waiting with anticipation to see if it's an offensive foul, or a defensive foul, and then, if defensive, if the basket will count.



And then, waiting with bated breath, they see my fist come down hard to score the goal (sometimes I'll take a little extra step away from the players ("Heh. Look at me.") and a little hop to get my fist started from higher up in the air, maybe add a little extra "air guitar windmill", and I'll always yell, "Count it"), followed by a block (for example) signal (I often get so excited that I use my fists instead of my open hands) and then half the crowd goes crazy with excitement (in my dream they hoist me up their shoulders and carry me around the gym with colorful streamers falling from the ceiling) as the other half yells something about me keeping my day job, or maybe something worse.

It's poetry in motion.

It doesn't get any better than that.

I can wax on for a lot longer.

I actually had to wait until my third game to make this exciting call this past season.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Apr 09, 2020 at 12:04pm.
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Old Wed Apr 08, 2020, 04:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Here is why they likely changed this mechanic to some extent.



Peace
If only the official would have placed his hand behind his head, lol.
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