Wrong team awarded AP throw-in

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by Rich

Yay! Common sense prevailed. Not a single person involved in the game thought that was the wrong thing to do.

Well, that presents us with a quandry.
Now I'm not sure now how to train officials what to learn and enforce.
A) "Common Sense" = the rule as written, which is available to everyone everywhere?
...or...
B) "Common Sense" = Rich's opinion, which is known only by those who are aware of his personal preference?
Right when I thought this was getting easy. Ugh.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Well, that presents us with a quandry.

Now I'm not sure now how to train officials what to learn and enforce.

A) "Common Sense" = the rule as written, which is available to everyone everywhere?

...or...

B) "Common Sense" = Rich's opinion, which is known only by those who are aware of his personal preference?

Right when I thought this was getting easy. Ugh.

It's a terrible rule. Should fall under correctable errors before a change of possession.

Nobody playing in the game with any integrity wants an unwarranted possession.


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[BoomerSooner]

I agree with Rich's point that a "do over" in this situation makes logical sense, but the problem is the myriad of what ifs that come in to play. The rule was written the way it was to provide a consistent way to deal with this situation and avoiding the various things that might happen after the throw-in is completed. Obviously it makes sense in the situation presented because only 4 seconds elapsed, but what if it had been 30 seconds? Do we still have a do over? What if the defense had committed a foul and it was discovered at that point? Do we still have a do over including erasing the foul? What if the offense had called a timeout and it was discovered then? Do we still have a do over and give the timeout back? I'm sure we could come up with logical ways to handle all of these, but the door is wide open for random decisions by officials if it isn't supported by the rules.

[LRZ]

How about this? If there is an intervening act--e.g., a foul, violation or basket--apply the rule as written. If not, do it over. This would be as consistent as the current rule.

I've had this happen once or twice. In one game, we caught our error just after the in-bound player caught the throw-in; we did a do-over. The other time, the coach brought our error to our attention after a basket had been scored; I explained the rule to the coach, who accepted the explanation, and we played on from the point of the basket.

In any event, it serves as a reminder, when there is a break in the action, to always reinforce whose throw-in and where.

Edit, after Raymond's comment (Post #7): Neither of my errors occurred on AP possessions, but after time-outs. But Raymond's point is a good one.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by LRZ

How about this? If there is an intervening act--e.g., a foul, violation or basket--apply the rule as written. If not, do it over. This would be as consistent as the current rule.

I've had this happen once or twice. In one game, we caught our error just after the in-bound player caught the throw-in; we did a do-over. The other time, the coach brought our error to our attention after a basket had been scored; I explained the rule to the coach, who accepted the explanation, and we played on from the point of the basket.

And I think your exact scenarios reflect the intent of the rule.

[Freddy]

The approved options for when officials get something wrong -- I'm thinkin' 2-10 here, to wit -- seem to be such that they inflict pain upon the crew such because the resolution isn't understood ("That's not fair!") and takes extraordinary 'splainin'. I wonder if by intent. Hmmmm.

[Rich1]

Originally Posted by LRZ

How about this -- apply the rule as written. .

Follow the rule book. The rule was written for a reason. if a rule needs to be changed, advocate for a change to the people who can change it but don't just make up your own rules.

Imagine the next week in the finals when this happens again and the refs apply the rule as written -- how crazy that coach is going to get because "it wasn't done that way last game".

We have all had to deal with coaches who justifiably throw fits because the crews before us failed to do their job -- apply the rules.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich1

We have all had to deal with coaches who justifiably throw fits because the crews before us failed to do their job -- apply the rules.

Equipment issues (especially undershirts, same color as jersey, so simple, especially in a boys game).

[zm1283]

I'm just surprised to hear of how many middle school games in other parts of the country go without an AP arrow on the table. I worked a handful of middle school games this past fall before the high school season got started. I think every one of them had an arrow. And relatively well-trained adults at the table. Most, not all, schools here pay teachers or other staff to work the table for all games no matter the level.