The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 23, 2019, 11:44am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Rockville,MD
Posts: 657
Too Low as Trail and Center

At one of the camps I went to this summer and in my 3-person fall league games, I got feedback that I was going too low in the Trail and Center positions. This often happens when I come into the position from transition and close down, or if I have already stepped down to stay connected to a play, and I close down.

What do you do to ensure the right balance between an aggressive mindset of staying connected to plays and being in a good position (between the 28' mark and the 3-point arc as Trail; within the free-throw circle as Center)? I'm trying to control my strides so I stop at the 28' mark as Trail and at the free-throw line extended as C, but there are times that I overshoot the mark. Are there any suggestions y'all have?

Thank you!
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 23, 2019, 12:10pm
This IS My Social Life
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at L, T, or C
Posts: 2,301
The NFHS Officials manual prescribes that, "Trail's home position is at or below the top of the three-point arc extended..." Then, he "may move down toward the end line to obtain a better angle on plays..." it seems apparent around here that being too low as Trail and Center or as Trail in 2 person is not the problem. Not remaining connected with the play or not stepping down on drives and shots from the field and being too high and detached it's more of a problem then what you are mentioning. Of course, like everything, this can be overdone. But the good thing is that if it is overdone, that presupposes that it at least is being done.
There is a good article in Referee magazine from earlier this year on this topic entitled "Walk This Way" which has reappeared in the preseason Referee magazine basketball prep publication. Exceptionally well written.
__________________
Making Every Effort to Be in the Right Place at the Right Time, Looking at the Right Thing to Make the Right Call
www.myvirtualofficialsassociation.com
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 23, 2019, 01:16pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 13,368
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
At one of the camps I went to this summer and in my 3-person fall league games, I got feedback that I was going too low in the Trail and Center positions. This often happens when I come into the position from transition and close down, or if I have already stepped down to stay connected to a play, and I close down.

What do you do to ensure the right balance between an aggressive mindset of staying connected to plays and being in a good position (between the 28' mark and the 3-point arc as Trail; within the free-throw circle as Center)? I'm trying to control my strides so I stop at the 28' mark as Trail and at the free-throw line extended as C, but there are times that I overshoot the mark. Are there any suggestions y'all have?

Thank you!
I bet you weren't too low in the Trail, you just had someone observing who doesn't prescribe to Trails getting underneath the play. In Trail, I'll goes as far as the FTLE to maintain my angle.

I have seen people get too low in the C, but as a hard habit, I step down in the C when I have to make a decision which way to go.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 23, 2019, 01:50pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,553
There is a strong push at the higher levels for officials to be sideline-oriented in the T position and get out of the old-school habit of going way out on the floor. (Why did that ever become a thing?)

There are, of course, old-timers that push back against this, but the research from the NBA has shown call accuracy is better when we go underneath the play rather than over the top.

Without film there's no way for us to give an opinion on you specifically. My guess is you likely just had an old-school clinician who hasn't kept up with the evolution of officiating.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 23, 2019, 01:57pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 28,878
Mechanics are for the most part guidelines to get you in the proper position to cover a respective play. Some clinicians have very strong views about certain movements and others do not care. The goal should be to figure out who you are in front of and who you want to impress and do what they like. Otherwise, there is no real right or wrong about this for the most part. Just do what they say when you are on the court, then later go back to what works. At least you can try what they say and realize it does or does not work for you.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 23, 2019, 02:01pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 28,878
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
There is a strong push at the higher levels for officials to be sideline-oriented in the T position and get out of the old-school habit of going way out on the floor. (Why did that ever become a thing?)
Teams did not use to take as many 3s as they do now. So you were OK in that position, but now we have so many more 3 point shots, you must get underneath to see even the slightest arm contact. At least when I started officiating, most plays went to the post. Those days are over at least for right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
There are, of course, old-timers that push back against this, but the research from the NBA has shown call accuracy is better when we go underneath the play rather than over the top.

Without film there's no way for us to give an opinion on you specifically. My guess is you likely just had an old-school clinician who hasn't kept up with the evolution of officiating.
This is why I often do not subscribe to "mechanics books" as law. I think they are often suggestions and we should adjust to the game that we are officiating and the game that is being played. I am a high school clinician and I taught everyone to go underneath the entire summer and no one said a word to me about what I said. I am certainly not a "new school" guy either, but I am not stubborn about what we should do to get plays rights.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 23, 2019, 04:49pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Rockville,MD
Posts: 657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
I bet you weren't too low in the Trail, you just had someone observing who doesn't prescribe to Trails getting underneath the play. In Trail, I'll goes as far as the FTLE to maintain my angle.

I have seen people get too low in the C, but as a hard habit, I step down in the C when I have to make a decision which way to go.
That makes sense. I like going under more than over, because over often leads to me getting straightlined. I can get contact better from going under. Some HS officials and evaluators don't like me going low, but the college observers didn't care, and neither did the people at Court Club Elite. I had more issues with being stuck at a C position as the Lead in press coverage (probably a 2-man holdover) than with going too low as Lead and Trail, and it looks that I've solved that issue now.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll look to incorporate that into my future games.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 24, 2019, 01:20pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Kansas
Posts: 494
well I for one can say that "thanks a lot" for making the good effort to 'get under' and not settling out in the "28 foot mark wilderness" when action is going on 15 feet away from you!
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 25, 2019, 09:23am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Rockville,MD
Posts: 657
Don't know why the old school method was for Trail and Center to be stationary in 3-person mechanics. Modern college officials do position adjust to see through players, and the younger generation of NBA officials might as well. I don't care where I end up, as long as I get the best possible look at plays in my PCA (or when needed, assisting another official when there are no plays in my PCA).
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 25, 2019, 10:38am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,553
I try to be stationary once I'm in a good position and anticipating that I'll have a decision to make. We miss plays when our eyes are bouncing.

As the saying goes, get to where you need to be to referee the play.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 25, 2019, 12:29pm
This IS My Social Life
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at L, T, or C
Posts: 2,301
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
...in a good position and anticipating that I'll have a decision to make....get to where you need to be to referee the play.
C Anticipates Pass and Gets Beneath It Prior
__________________
Making Every Effort to Be in the Right Place at the Right Time, Looking at the Right Thing to Make the Right Call
www.myvirtualofficialsassociation.com
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 25, 2019, 12:54pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Rockville,MD
Posts: 657
Great example! The C is in perfect position to see the gap between the pass receiver and the defender. It is unconventional, and an observer might chew him out if he's one of the old-fashioned guys, but the C is there to see travels or fouls by the on-ball matchup, and is in great position to anticipate the next play as well.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 25, 2019, 03:33pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 17,773
Follow The Bouncing Ball ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
We miss plays when our eyes are bouncing.
Here in my little corner of Connecticut, we instruct our new officials using the same terminology.

__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 25, 2019, 04:48pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Rockville,MD
Posts: 657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
The NFHS Officials manual prescribes that, "Trail's home position is at or below the top of the three-point arc extended..." Then, he "may move down toward the end line to obtain a better angle on plays..." it seems apparent around here that being too low as Trail and Center or as Trail in 2 person is not the problem. Not remaining connected with the play or not stepping down on drives and shots from the field and being too high and detached it's more of a problem then what you are mentioning. Of course, like everything, this can be overdone. But the good thing is that if it is overdone, that presupposes that it at least is being done.
There is a good article in Referee magazine from earlier this year on this topic entitled "Walk This Way" which has reappeared in the preseason Referee magazine basketball prep publication. Exceptionally well written.
I read and enjoyed that article. If only everyone subscribed to that approach and used it for training.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 25, 2019, 09:03pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 13,368
I am a big big big proponent of sideline oriented Trails. Those who choose to learn with/from me, that's the number one thing I talk about.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Trail in 2-Whistle sseltser Basketball 21 Fri Feb 05, 2010 09:42pm
End of the trail AKOFL Basketball 5 Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:19am
center/trail coverage ctpfive Basketball 1 Mon Dec 18, 2006 05:23pm
Trail Positioning DownTownTonyBrown Basketball 12 Thu Jan 19, 2006 08:26am
Angle on a three if you're the trail OverAndBack Basketball 15 Tue Feb 24, 2004 03:59pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:54am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1